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+--- Thread: What I've gotten to work. (Nomstuff community/devies please read) (/showthread.php?tid=83249)
What I've gotten to work. (Nomstuff community/devies please read) - HuggieSunrise - 07-05-2012
Welp. ive done it both ways.
A.) I've altered the fighters/caps packages to mount the cloaks on the cloak-hp that exists already on the ships.
B.) I've made nomad versions of the jump drive/survey module, cloaking devices, and put them Altair for sale.
The advantage to A. is we have cm's and a cloak. But i dont think we should have cm's anyway.. so i have to go with B.
When I was playing with the human cloaks and the jump modules I noticed the subtle balance that seems to have been intended.
Both are somewhat made for "getting away". Both are intensely pleasurable to play with. but for nomads and specifically the nomad faction this purpose has to be reversed.
The cloaking devices dont take up space on the ships, however to make up for this we have to carry liquid cardamine (at least 1 unit) for the device to activate.
Because the "cool-down" doesn't work however i seem to try and make it work the warm up on the cloak takes forever and shuts off shields.
Fighter: 60 secs / 1 min
Gunboat/Cruiser: 2 mins
Marduk: 3 mins
Now I realise the only balance partner I had was my wife... she does fly better then I do and was attempting to shoot me down in nomad/order fighters and larger in a no holds barred balance fight.
10 out of ten times in a fighter I was killed trying to cloak in a fight.
In the gunboat(nammu) vs nammu/hathor i died 9 out of ten (nammu maingun ftw)
The Marduk with jump drive/sruvey and UAU x2.0 died every time wiaitng to cloak (to a geb)
The cap 8 Marduk was heavily damaged vs an Osiris killed by a Juggernaut , lib dred, GRNvalor (she bulls-eyed me with that main gun really well)
having no restarting shield makes heavy bombardment an instant kill in every case for anything large and frankly even our gunboat is huge. (and dont get me started with how many times i blew myself up with mines)
The one angle of having an unlimited duration cloak is we will be able to ambush, but we wont be able to get away cleanly. infact if you have missles odds are ..we wouldn't survive a direct hit.. from missiles mines or flaks.
How our ships are at the current moment cloaks will give us the advantage I beleave we should have as nomads. It will be slight and the inherent disadvantage comes to us when we try and use them the way humans do ie.. to get away.
JUMP DRIVES
The nomad Jump-drive and survey mod are copies of the fleetjump and mk 2 survey. They are only mountable on the marduk because of thier size and leaves room for a small uau x2 hull upgrade (fully armed). this leaves 5 cargo space fully armed for liquid cardie to act as the devices catalyst.
As the jump vessel wont have room for a cloaking device (under plan b) or docking modules (as i have it) I made the "jumpnom" unable to cloak because our device mounted on the cloakhp (under A) would enable us to jump while cloaked.
Even im remiss about that. I would rather let folks check the player list and see our movements then be able to jump ontop of someone cloaked within the three minutes+ it takes for a charge and cloak to take effect.
Ie if we pop into a system jumpnom should be visible and viable target.
DOCK MODULE
Im fuzzy on this. so i need your guys help here. Only the marduk will carry them.
a.) Dock mod fittable no cloak
b.) Dock mod fittable and cloak
c.) YOU GUYS ALREADY WANT FREECLOAKING AND JUMPDRIVES WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT? (no dock mod)
I am highly in favor of C. Even though the three holes on the Marduk was designed to "poot" fighters... I think the docking module should be a more human advantage.
Finally thank you all for reading. please READ this thing before replying... I remember when we could discuss this stuff without it getting trashy.
Also I really do need dev feedback here. I at least need to know if im doing this stuff pointlessly or if i could get honest direct feedback as to whats acceptable, I maybe quick and dirty on my editing but I do triple check my work. I just again need a comment (begging guys / cannon/ anybody) either in here or in im's
Thanks.
What I've gotten to work. (Nomstuff community/devies please read) - Ipuvaepe - 07-05-2012
A long activation time is actually a better balance factor than cooldown time. Cooldown, if it was working, would only be relevant if the nomad cloak was also used for covert entry.
What I had considered doing on my test server is simply using the nomad veils as a cloaking device (to avoid rewriting cloak code to allow the use of the cloaking effect on all nomad ships).
As for fuel, none is really necessary. Since the cloak would be balanced for infiltration not exfiltration, it's not important to limit cloak time. For human ships (and to a much lesser extent, Wilde) it is because they can do a whole lot cloaked, like trading scouting spying or escorting. With nomad ships because of their limited use it's extremely hard to abuse.
I'd say give it a 300 second charge time across the board for all nomad cloaks. No fuel, no drop shield on cloak, no drop shield on uncloak. My $0.02
--------------------
As for the nomad jump drive, I have to disagree with it in its entirety. With an unlimited cloak balanced for infiltration it will already be too easy for them to get where they're going. Will it encourage nomad activity? Absolutely! Will it encourage metagame (using human coords with nomad drives)? Absolutely! Will it encourage lolwut nowarning spur-of-the-moment NY ganking? Absolutely! And then there is the whole issue with the nomad lore and nomads pulling the ability to jump out of their arse.
What I've gotten to work. (Nomstuff community/devies please read) - HuggieSunrise - 07-05-2012
hrmm I see your point with the jumpdrives. Though. I have to reserve the right to "gank" places randomly.
I actually wanted to to have a jumpnom that could basicly survey the home coords. Blind jump with a group of ships. and let the terror happen.
lately ive been trying to encouraging more "attack" everything stuff. but really. i mean the reason behind the jumpdrives being altered for noms is to promote more terror.
this would actually require a spur of the moment attack.. I mean if anything. NOW would eb the time to do it with minor out of the way. pretty sure it was intended for us to be that bad. Though again.
these days we are not that hard to defeat. and now we dont even have the scorp from what i hear (not that i miss it)
As for the ability in lore.. Well in starlancer fighters had the ability to jump point to point. And im sure the sun popper didnt take a bus.
What I've gotten to work. (Nomstuff community/devies please read) - jakub963 - 07-05-2012
As a nomnom, all could ask for is cloak and at the very least, gunboat that is not heavy cruiser sized, med gb agile with less than light gb firepower.
As i understand the cloak you did there Huggs... The cloak will have "extremly" long activation time but will require no fuel (beside the activation catalist). My opinion = do want, pretty much only this feature.
P.s.: any progress on the nammu issue? I do recall that some arcs had wedge cut-outs, removimg those would partialy fix it?
What I've gotten to work. (Nomstuff community/devies please read) - HuggieSunrise - 07-05-2012
the only one i knew that exspressed fixing the nammu was aeternius. and he mentioned additional turrets. i beleave "could support 8 firing forward".
Though who knows who has what in store. I mostly begged for a dev response of some kind. yadda yadda. and yes the above are concepts the cloaks are the big thing. the rest? well need to see what everyone feels.
What I've gotten to work. (Nomstuff community/devies please read) - Zynth - 07-05-2012
On the cloaking device:
I say the Noms deserve an improved version of the cloak: No shield drop as Puv stated and an unlimited cloaking time. Retain the charge period.
The idea here is that the nommies are different. They are a closed faction and their tech should be treated as such. The assumption is that you have to balance nomstuff to other tech. I however, propose that nomstuff should be treated as nomstuff, non-human and advanced technology. The nommies deserve better equipment and better ships than the humans and the lore agrees with this.
The idea of abuse is little anyway, for nommies don't really have anything OP to do with cloaks. Plus, being a closed faction, I trust the people in it will not be attempting abuse anyway.
What I've gotten to work. (Nomstuff community/devies please read) - Govedo13 - 07-05-2012
Nomads deserve the same what other factions have. Not more or less. Good work however it is not what it supposed to be.:nono:Giving more to one faction proves ineffective and bad for the whole community:
Katana Nomad gun Inferno cannon Kusari Wild, 8 Nomad guns on Scorp etc stuff- they brought nothing good to noone- now the Kusari Wild does not exist and the nomad gun on wild gb gets 90% nerf, it is time to nerf the Nomad LF to be done with the whole nomad superiority nonsense. Or we all could "thrust" you after you screwed so many time?:lol: Like Zynth fellow- don't make me laugh please.
How OP devices would improve the relations between nomads and other people because quite frankly 90 % of the community does not like you, would you be accepted better/not ganked on spot if you have more OP stuff?
So it would be nice not to propose the same OP devices for the nomads for 3rd time in 3rd topic after you got 2 times NOT U as response.
All nomad troubles could be solved by adding Liquid Cardamine as fuel on Mox ratings after making it perishable simple as that.
What I've gotten to work. (Nomstuff community/devies please read) - Daedric - 07-05-2012
Congrats on not knowing what you're talking about Gov, which is typical for you. Do tell how the Squids are suppose to get all the player made equipment? Hrm? Hugs here has not given the Squids much above and beyond what every other faction has. He has merely taken what the rest have and modified it to work for the most unique faction on the server. He also took the time to balance it too.
I think ya need the cloak. Not sure about the jumps though.
What I've gotten to work. (Nomstuff community/devies please read) - mwerte - 07-05-2012
' Wrote:I think ya need the cloak. Not sure about the jumps though.I concurr, but I r biased.
What I've gotten to work. (Nomstuff community/devies please read) - Govedo13 - 07-05-2012
' Wrote:CDo tell how the Squids are suppose to get all the player made equipment? Hrm?How single indi pirate gets the cloak? How small unlawful factions get the cloak? How individual freelancers ge the cloak? How people get mk IV device to power trade with it? How ? Is this in RP?
Very simple- they produce it on their own base or buy it like everyone else.
Settuping of any ship was OORP and would continue to be OORP anyway why Nomads need to be exception?
RP Lore is more or less irrelevant when we speak about PvP balance because if it was relevant all unlawful factions would have crappy ships and weapons and no battleships while the gallic ships should be two time more faster and with double DPS on the guns- however the point of the balance is everyone to have equal chance to have fun-that is the point where you fail big time.
How nomads are somewhat excluded? Because they got blue ships or what?
Every previous attempt to give nomad like factions something more then others failed big time and was abused big time- with such background Nomad players must be crazy or hypocrite to ask for more really.
In the same line of hypocrisy I could say that all nomad like ships should not use armour updates because they are organic and human made armour cannot increase their hulls anyway- how this statement sounds- stupid like having better modules for nomads or legit because of the RP background of the nomads?
Again for more clarity:
The one and only nomad problem is fuel- adding perishable liquid cardamine as fuel to all bases that they could dock solves it rather fast and swiftly without any balance problems.