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+--- Thread: F1 self-mining (/showthread.php?tid=84745)
F1 self-mining - Pavel - 07-30-2012
Ursus reminded me about topic I wanted to post long ago. F1 self-mining.
Defacto legal multiboxing. Yes, yes, I know, multiboxing is "having more than one instance of Discovery open to fly their own characters". That's true. But there's always but - what's the difference between multibox mining, and mining 5k of ore and then hurry switch to transport?
Do you mine alone, without need of teamwork, or hiring miner? You do. Does it promote interaction between players? Is it something enhancing RP?
This is Q_Q thread, if you want to call it that name. In DHC I meet a lot of "indies", without any basic knowledge about Daumann's RP, goals or who our enemies are. " hi. i'm not interested, i want only ore"
Why anybody should hire miner or join mining faction, if he can make indie and self-mine? By interaction he could learn how to RP employee of said faction, play with others, play multiplayer game.
"They need cash Pavel" - me too. If all what they can bring to RP is "I need credits, that's why I have this indie, I'm not interested in your RP" , why we haven't fields with credit cards then? (Your idea Ursus. I know that was sarcastic, but it shows problem)
Mining/trading factions are different than pvp-oriented ones, navy and pirate. Different doesn't mean better or worse, it means different. How pirate players would feel, if in the middle of battle someone from navy's side cruises 20k away, F1 in space, and suddenly in place of snub logs cruiser? Wouldn't it be a cheating? Because F1 selfmining is.
I'm sure it's not only Daumann's problem, but every mining faction.
F1 self-mining - Pancakes - 07-30-2012
Yes you can say it's cheating, but on the other hand it's a risk. If NPCs will pass by they will tractor your ore, other players can steal it and the ship you switch to in order to take the ore might not be exactly where you left it due to drifting, and in the time you get to the ore it can disappear.
At any rate, when I see those I shoot down their ore or steal it, otherwise nothing can be done against it.
F1 self-mining - Jack_Henderson - 07-30-2012
Hm, while I agree that teamplay is better, their F1-self-mining is only the lgical consequence of gameplay changes to mining.
In the past, they would have taken the Hegemon and would have mined and hauled the ore in a ridiculously easy to catch and pirate/kill monstership. They were able to legally work alone in low-player hours or when they felt like grinding alone.
In my book, there is nothing wrong with making credits alone (all traders do it).
So... it doesn't come as a surprise that miners want to have that privilege back, too. The Hege with the nerfed cargo space is not suitable any more. So they found a way... F1, switch, tractor, F1.
We don't have to discuss that this is not elegant.
And that group activity is so much better.
And so much more conducive to roleplay.
But if you want to change it, legalize solo-mining again by un-nerfing the Hegemon, instead of criminalising what people do now.
Just my opinion.
F1 self-mining - Loken - 07-30-2012
When I was leading DHC we all did that when we were alone. Nothing wrong with it if there's nobody to help you out.
F1 self-mining - Asbestos - 07-30-2012
I agree with Jack and Loken. I see nothing wrong with F1 self-mining, and would certainly not call it cheating.
What I do see however, is this as vague attempt to force miner indies into joining official factions. Why else would you call it a "problem for every mining faction"?
F1 self-mining - sindroms - 07-30-2012
People have ways to earn money, which is needed to set up their characters quicker. Obviously that is wrong.
Let the peeps make their money. Just get on a pirate and pirate them dry instead.
F1 self-mining - Pavel - 07-30-2012
Of course there's nothing wrong in making credits alone, however traders don't do it in ooRP way. F1 switching ships in space is entirely ooRP.
It is wrong, by that logic if there's no good commodity to take back from B to A suicide trading is an option.
Nothing "vague" here. I don't speak about joining official factions, but about playing with others. It doesn't matter is this indie or official miner, ore is still that same. Selfmining eliminates element of interaction between players, that's the problem. And I call it problem for every mining faction because I met many indie miners not interested in any form of interaction and RP of faction, be it BMM, DHC, DSE, Samura, IMG... Problem is also in fact people treat these fations (NPC ones), as cashmaker devices, nothing more. Any interest in RP, story, only earning credits.
F1 self-mining - ssc - 07-30-2012
Unlawful Bandit, I don't quite understand this post, when everyone here has ran into a player, unwilling to interact with others. Not everyone will interact cause someone wants them to. If they dont want to and are pestered about it, theyll simply fire on the person annoying them. Theres a number of people on the server that will simply continue flying or pirates that will attack for no reason. This is somewhat of a issue with Rhienland Military and Police, people have been attacked for carrying cargo that theyre not suppose to but get no warnings. Trying to ban this "Quick-switch" method isnt any of our concern. If you want to do something about it, pay some mercs or pirates to hijack any Corperate and Civilian ships they come across. You want to change minds, start disrupting their buisness.
F1 self-mining - TLI-Inferno - 07-30-2012
Yes, the real problem lies in greed. It happens with every business.
In trading and mining, many people don't want to even stop to talk to anyone, because they want to make the quickest money. I can understand F1 trading when nobody is on, but doing it all day long just to avoid paying mining fees, and not interacting with any other players, just stacking credits, really does mess up the game.
The other day, I was mining for a friend. We saw a miner F1 with 5,000 ore under him, and we knew what was obviously happening. I sent my friend over to take the ore. When the miner logged onto his transport he began raging so hard about how we stole "his" ore. Well, if it's "his" ore, then he's roleplaying as the same person on two characters. Then, he F1'd, switched to a bomber, destroyed my friend, tried to chase me, but failed.
Now, I'm not an anti-independent. Sure, you don't have to join the player faction. But if you join an NPC faction, you should at least act like a person in that faction. Treat the faction's friends like friends, and such.
Pirates do the same thing. Pirates, and independent rogues, are always greedy. They ask ridiculous fees to everyone; even their allies. They only care about making money, rather than actually playing their roles as rogues. Oftentimes, they even switch characters and use Chat list to chase down rich groups and pirate them again. Obviously there's no proof of this, but it's pretty obvious when a person leaves, and right about in the amount of time it would take him to fly to the closest base, and then fly back, a new one comes and asks for the same amount of credits, with the same attitude. Happens quite often.
Even police do this. A lot of police players; sometimes even official police players, abuse their authority and act like pirates. I'm not talking about lawfully destroying a smuggler's cargo; I'm talking about hard piracy. Lawfuls use tradelane networks to track down wealthy haulers and stop them. They then accuse us of breaking laws that we haven't broken, and demand a fine. Since nobody records their gameplay as they're flying around, we can't prove that we didn't break any laws. Then, they order us to drop our cargo. If we don't, we're resisting an order, which is against the law, and that's added to our fine. Then, if we don't pay the fine for crimes that we didn't commit, we'll be destroyed for resisting arrest, even if we're still sitting next to the authority, motionless, with no guns. This happens to me about once a day. They usually target junkers or zoners, because nobody will believe us when we say we haven't broken any laws, even when we're flying weaponless ships with legal cargo. They never ask to drop cargo, either. They always just want credits for themselves.
Their favorite trick is to sit in front of stokes. When you exit the lane from leeds, and are about to go to the niobium fields behind stokes, they stop you and order you to pay 10,000,000 credits for taking cargo to the taus, even when you're not actually heading to the taus.
Anyway, my point is: People turn everything into a source of making credits, and don't even bother to actually play the game. They just want to collect as much imaginary currency as they can, and funnel it all to one character that they actually play on. While playing for credits is frowned upon, there are no rules against it. I just don't like how almost everyone seems to only be in it for the credits.
TL/DR: People's obsession with artificial currency leads them to not play for the sake of the game, but for earning artificial currency, and many are willing to use whatever boring and dishonest methods they can come up with.
F1 self-mining - Ursus - 07-30-2012
Here's my policy. If there's a miner there, I'll buy from him. If there's no miner there, I'll F1 and get my own mining ship. If another trader comes and asks for ore while I'm in the mining ship, I'll RP the miner and take care of him.
I'm happy not to F1 mine for myself, you just need figure out a way to guarantee that a miner will always be in every field whenever I'm in my trade ship.