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+---- Thread: Ballistics (missiles/mines/etc) (/showthread.php?tid=8682)
Ballistics (missiles/mines/etc) - me_b_kevin - 05-21-2008
ok, i love the idea of ballistics, a secondary weapon with a lot of punch but limited by ammo....brilliant!
after some testing, i have revoked my previous statements that missles and mines are useless. i have come to see how effective they can be, BUT this effectiveness, in my experiences, only happens in a jousting environment. a situation where you and your target are thrusting straight at each other, during these types of conflicts a few well timed salvos can end a fight very quickly. The only problem with this is that it's not all fights are fought in a joust.
outside of a joust missiles seem to either not show up at all when you fire them or they play tortoise to the targets hare. mines are similar, as they wander around like a lost puppy looking for their mommy.
my proposal is this:
Missiles: increase speed to cruise speed (350)...that's all, it shouldn't affect how it performs in jousts but it should help it be more useful in other situations. i know people hate references to modern tech, but current missles travel at supersonic speeds, so it seems fitting really
Mines: increase speed to thruster speed (200)...same as above, i visualize these things as a thruster with a payload on it
if this makes them a bit too powerful you could lower the universal ammo limit to something reasonable.
just some thoughts i had on a possibly simple remedy to increase effectiveness of the part they play on the battlefield.
Ballistics (missiles/mines/etc) - Robert.Fitzgerald - 05-21-2008
They are fine in jousts and mines are decent in chases...
If you moved them both up to these speeds, vanilla fighters would frankly be useless.
Missiles would become a homing mini razor.
Mines would become an instant-kill suicide starflea
Missiles and mines are fine, in my opinion. They aren't (and should not be) fire-and-forget weapons. They require skill to use, just like guns.
Ballistics (missiles/mines/etc) - Eternal - 05-21-2008
I'm a very poor fighter pilot ,but even I know that missles are realy well balanced as it is. If the speeds are increased so much it will afect the game in a realy nasty way. They are simply too , no TOO , powerfull if those speeds are reached.
For the mines. The mine is a double edjed sword. So if the speed is increased to 200 , it is by far more possible to die from your own mines much more often then your oponent.
Ballistics (missiles/mines/etc) - me_b_kevin - 05-21-2008
' Wrote:They are fine in jousts and mines are decent in chases...
If you moved them both up to these speeds, vanilla fighters would frankly be useless.
Missiles would become a homing mini razor.
Mines would become an instant-kill suicide starflea
Missiles and mines are fine, in my opinion. They aren't (and should not be) fire-and-forget weapons. They require skill to use, just like guns.
one argument i would still have is the lack of tracking the missles would continue to have. the CD's travel at tradelane speeds and still miss all the time for me even after doing to changing targets trick.
so i would argue that increasing their speed wouldn't make them an automatic hit. we'd still have the random missiles flying off into nowhere land.
Ballistics (missiles/mines/etc) - Jinx - 05-21-2008
missiles are really only useful when you re jousting. - mines are fine when you spam the battlefield and blow them up with a train CD. - but even so, they don t do much to non vanilla fighters.
i had a little fight against Blackheart ( some terrorist ) on cheshire. - i had my bomber not even half equipped at that time - no torps etc. - but i had a cannonball. - the only damage i did was with the cannonball. and it ripped his eagle apart easily.
i don t know how it would affect fights when missiles were greatly improved then. - hitting him jousting wasn t all too hard. - and a half equipped bomber really shouldn t win against an eagle. now of course, i would never have hit him outside the jousting - so in that case, it d be nice to have missiles that can hit. - but if they hit tracking targets from behind well - i could just spam the battlefield with cannonballs or firestalkers ( don t like sidewinders - i use firestalkers )
btw. he had 2 sidewinder launchers, i think. - they are supposed to be faster and track better - but i think he hit me a lot less.
edit: don t know about missiles that are not tracking at all. - might really be interesting. - a cannonball like missile with a 650 speed and a small blast damage.
Ballistics (missiles/mines/etc) - Dantrithor - 05-21-2008
Honestly, i think missiles are fine as they are.
I have used a missile-based loadout in my fighter, and in 1vs1 it was very good. Even in group battles, while your ammonition lasted, you could easily disarm (destroy all weapons) two bombers, as long as you didnt waste missiles on shields.
And then, when you begin using the gunboat missile turrets... fighters and bombers fall like flies. Ask the two xenos (XA) in bombers which attacked my gunship the other day...
And mines like that would basically be like current missiles, just faster, and dropped behind. In my honest opinion they should be semi-stationary objects. If you eat one, fine, but they shouldnt be an explosive with a thruster. That's what the missiles exactly are.
Ballistics (missiles/mines/etc) - Dieter Schprokets - 05-21-2008
Missiles need a bit of a boost in tracking and speed.
Mines should be removed from the game. At least 3% of players agree with me on this, so they should be removed.
I hate mines.
Have I mentioned I hate mines?
Ballistics (missiles/mines/etc) - mjolnir - 05-21-2008
I did offer you some mine training dieter... :)
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But yes as it is now.. missiles are GREAT in jousting... so far that you can see half missile/half guns ships do great.
But a bit less great otherwise...
increasing their speeds does make them better in both which means they will be too good inmho.
The more agile missiles (firestalkers/sidewinders) actually hit ships that are dodging away in one direction - kind off running away. Only if he changes direction >90 they stop tracking. That is the thing that could be improved, but I don't think it's possible.
Another very deadly combination that works even when not jousting is exploding your own missiles with a CD when they come close to target.
EDIT: Yes I forgot they they should just explode close to the target... the missiles tracking all nicely and missing the target like 1/8 of the ship size away are simply irritating - hence why the CD tactic works so well.
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Mines don't need speed... as you said yourself they tend to "switch target" quite often. Too high speed will make them just switch to you-him-NPCs-you-him... much faster I think.
For me it would actually make more sense to make them a bit more stationary.
They are great-to-uber weapons as they are now... no need to upgrade.
Ballistics (missiles/mines/etc) - me_b_kevin - 05-21-2008
i was in a group fight the other day and i was behind a bomber. i shot a paralyzer then shot a sidewinder at the target. i heard both missiles fire but never saw them.
the problem comes from thrusting and engine killing, which we all agree is the typical way of fighting. from my experience your current forward momentum affects the speed of the missile, nomatter which way your ship is pointing. this is why missiles work best in jousting situations, because your both thrusting at each other causing the missle to probably, after both parties speed is considered, be traveling faster than cruise speed.
back when i had missile turrets on my destroyer i noticed this tremendously as i was thrusting one way shooting missiles behind me, the missiles were speed was affected by my forward momentum so the missile looked like it was going about 5ms.
the increase in speed for missiles was my thought on how to counteract this hinderance. in all actuallity the missles will be going slower than posted due to engine kill aside from jousting.
we also need not forget the use of CM's also
Ballistics (missiles/mines/etc) - Panzer - 05-21-2008
I agree with dreygon on the agility+speed upgrade.
Only on missles tho - they indeed should be of the fire and forget type... at least Sidewinders and Firestalkers. Mines I'd leave alone... maybe more variey, since everyone is using nukes these days.