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+--- Thread: To be or not to be? (/showthread.php?tid=8917)
To be or not to be? - Apex - 05-29-2008
Tis the question, seems like everyday , something changes online. When I was new and feeling out the game, I made and possiblely still make, rules and RP mistakes. I was hounded , hunted, required to leave systems because IFF didnt match ID, or wrong ship set-up for proper incharacter ship builds, or even when trying to correct IFF issues to be correct, sent away ect ect.
Today a beyond 40 level Xeno-XA member enters Area 21, appearently to travel through the system to (set up) his ship. Now of course this wasnt stated right off the bat, but later was. I'm liberty navy, the other guy involved was liberty navy. RP wise noones allowed to use that gate, heck lsf even run the navy from there. The guy was a notable enemy to all. Was it wrong for me to persue and kill him while playing incharacter, within the rules ?
Reason I ask is the stream of comments I later received, one even from a LPI guy, another from his buddy XA member. Where should the exceptions be made at. You slip up say a few improper things in chat with a pirate that couldnt kill you he gets mad, reports you, course later saying he woulda reported anyways, well I doubt that seriously but hey I'm not a telepath. I'm expected to give other people the leave way that I was never given, because it was stated as being OoRP or an rules violation.
LPI guy stated I shoulda been a gentleman and allowed him to pass through and that it was the fastest route to where he needed to go. Fastest, yes, only route no. His buddy runs off at the mouth about the event and issues the statement your life here is gonna be quite tough with that additude. My statement is to that.. your about 300 plus hours late dude.
Now to top that off, the guy re-enters the system while im still in it before the 4 hour limit is up, I make a comment about it and further get heckled by his friend, that first I shot him down as he was getting his ship together and then made a comment that he returned. Arent there rules for a reason ? or are some people just allowed to break them at thier leisure, then have thier friends harrass you in private chat. Or is it a tool you only enforce on people you dont know or who arent your friends or interfer on makeing things easy for yourselves.
This is just one event, I can go on about others, for instance a very well known person haveing disengaged from combat while in a zone, not being persued mind you 3 times, he was finally asked to leave and did so, but if he wasnt whom he was , people woulda spent no time at all reporting him. This double sided nature to rules enforcement and unwritten rules of what to let people get away with is frankly alot of bull.
I honestly try to refrain from reporting, I realise we are all human, we make mistakes. But whats the real deal here. This is a great game and very good mod. but many times it seems to be who you are or whom you know that dictates the level of enjoyment your allowed to have.
To be or not to be? - Tenacity - 05-29-2008
You werent wrong for engaging, he was over level 40 and tagged (and probably ID'd) as a xeno. Even if he was trying to 'set up' his character, he shouldnt have been going through restricted space.
Now, if he wasnt yet tagged/ID'd as a xeno, and was still in a starflier or something low level (meaning, his player level was only 40+ because of the money he carried on him)... I wouldnt have attacked.
To be or not to be? - Apex - 05-29-2008
' Wrote:You werent wrong for engaging, he was over level 40 and tagged (and probably ID'd) as a xeno. Even if he was trying to 'set up' his character, he shouldnt have been going through restricted space.
Now, if he wasnt yet tagged/ID'd as a xeno, and was still in a starflier or something low level (meaning, his player level was only 40+ because of the money he carried on him)... I wouldnt have attacked.
Nope wasnt a starflier, funniest thing Tenacity is his partner giving me the lip about 2 weeks ago, maybe less I spotted undocking from Manhatten took the screenshot, but decided not to report him, as he personnaly didnt do me any wrong and I have a hard time being a "snitch" even though its not really anything more then rule enforcement, I just couldnt go through with it.
To be or not to be? - tfmachad - 05-29-2008
It's difficult to give an opinion over a one sided account, but to be generic here:
Responsibilities of a player engaged in ooRP building up a character, or role playing doesn't cease because you want it to
1) Look at yourself - it's harder for people to accept ignoring you if you're fully tagged and IDed according to a hostile faction. It's an unwritten rule, but it's common for players to use the Trader ID (not civilian because of the lvl 40 rule) in order to build a character. That should be enough for anyone to grab a fighter and go about grabbing equipment and correcting their reputations.
2) Watch where you're going - see if there are people that will likely take exception to what you're about to do in order to build your character there or in the way there, contact these people and try and talk them into ignoring you while you're at it and if the agree to it, be sure to let them know when they can again switch you back to their universe. Not many things are as irritating as someone asking you to ignore them, just to have them jump you half an hour later "because they're all done now". Extend back the cordiality they've extended you.
3) If you want to be ignored, be invisible and mute - that means, if you want to be an alienated entity, don't go about interacting/interfering with everyone else while in character if you aren't ready/don't want to fully participate in it.
Chivalry behavior expected from players while another is engaged in building up a character
Everyone eventually needs to build up a character. This is something hardly can be done in character. It's polite not to hinder people while they're at it, provided they've made it known to everyone interested that they're on to it.
In the end, it's the person building up the character responsibility to let everyone know they're onto making a character and it's not so difficult to protect yourself from attacks if you're just starting a character (grab a flipping Trader ID, let interested people know). While it's largely frowned upon not to let other players go about creating characters, it's everyone else's option to really let them (another reason to take certain measures to protect yourself when you're building up a character).
To be or not to be? - Unseelie - 05-29-2008
If ever I'm told that someone is setting up a character, I treat that character as if it were not part of the Id system. You might want to take in mind that a stage in the career of a member of the XA is to upgrade from the blazers to the serpentis wings, wich means, that after playing their character, in a ship with a loadout that is quite possibly level 40, they then need to travel somewhere else for the elite VHF or bomber that their new Serpentis will use.
That sort of thing happens with many, many characters, who are upgrading or somehow changing their ships. If a player has declared themselves out of the roleplay, and is not interacting, or is not interacting, and then declares to you (hopefully all declarations will be made in private chat) then they are not in the roleplay, and it is the gentlemanly thing to ignore them.
To be or not to be? - Zapp - 05-29-2008
Right, I was that LPI guy... you're online being a jerk by (yes, this is my take on Gronath's thing) hindering him from setting up a character. Bad form all around, as he can't really do anything to you because he's not set up. The set-up stage is widely considered to be an ooRP time, because the Xenos have to fly all the way to the Omicrons to get their ships. OORP much? Yes. If you, say, run across a Xeno going to/returning from that trip, would you blow him up?
Just be nice, remember the Golden Rule: Do to others what you want them to do to you.
To be or not to be? - Apex - 05-29-2008
' Wrote:If ever I'm told that someone is setting up a character, I treat that character as if it were not part of the Id system. You might want to take in mind that a stage in the career of a member of the XA is to upgrade from the blazers to the serpentis wings, wich means, that after playing their character, in a ship with a loadout that is quite possibly level 40, they then need to travel somewhere else for the elite VHF or bomber that their new Serpentis will use.
That sort of thing happens with many, many characters, who are upgrading or somehow changing their ships. If a player has declared themselves out of the roleplay, and is not interacting, or is not interacting, and then declares to you (hopefully all declarations will be made in private chat) then they are not in the roleplay, and it is the gentlemanly thing to ignore them.
I dunno, suppose the more you play and learn, the better you can deal with situations as they unfold, for the most part not haveing been given the same curtousy on several characters, maybe makes it hard for me to give the same. When I tried to explain things, I was only greeted with rule quotes, proper RP manerism's and that they where only being in character, that getting equipment or fixing your IFF wasnt thier problem, threats and or death. Oddly though, I made it happen and it wasnt on a silver platter. Giving easy travel , so you can upgrade your ship, get better weapons or so you dont have to fight for what you are inevitably later gonna turn against the people your asking safe passage from ? Dunno, sounds nuts to me.
Theres often more ways then one to get somewhere, especially if it involves passing thru hostile territory though for some factions, such as this case just about everywhere would have been hostile. In a way I understand the guys frustration, been there done that kinda thing, but again no one showed me the same, they actually taught me to do the very thing I did. And if this is a general exception to the rules a unwritten " Gentlemans code", I think it could lead to massive misuseage for safe travels to get what you want.
To be or not to be? - Dusty Lens - 05-29-2008
' Wrote:Nope wasnt a starflier, funniest thing Tenacity is his partner giving me the lip about 2 weeks ago, maybe less I spotted undocking from Manhatten took the screenshot, but decided not to report him, as he personnaly didnt do me any wrong and I have a hard time being a "snitch" even though its not really anything more then rule enforcement, I just couldnt go through with it.
First of all, I state the following with nothing but the greatest respect: "lulz"
Seeing as to how I did, indeed, deliver 'lip' to you and with what many might consider -careless abandon- I would urge you to deliver said screenshot to the community in this very thread in order to resign my good name to the deepest trenches of social disdain.
However, I am empathetic to your position! Typically I also abstain from sanctioning persons for violating the rules unless I feel that he has delivered 'lip' to me, or some other form of social interaction that I find offensive to my person.
But I digress!
I read carefully over your initial grievance directed towards me and mine, how we callously threw threw the laws of man and community into the furnace of discord and, waiting an appropriate amount of time for the ash to cool, danced the tap dance of anarchy upon its flaky remains and frankly I must say that I'm appalled.
You and yours had every right to unleash a hellish fury of burning righteousness apon yon dastardly Xeno as he emerged from the hallowed den of Liberty's most secure province. To put heed to his cried of "//Just setting up folks, passing on through!" would be as though to draw a mustache upon the very edifice of lady justice herself!
I, for one, salute you for standing firm to upholding the toppling pillars of internet spaceship society whilst sneering bystanders such as myself and Zap (teh LPI lulz) heckle, yes I say heckle ladies and gentlemen, in your general direction when you sounded the trumpet of injustice and similar mewling about someone making a try again at heading through the system to move on to Connecticut and the rest of his life.
::salute::
-Dusty Lens
To be or not to be? - Apex - 05-29-2008
' Wrote:Right, I was that LPI guy... you're online being a jerk by (yes, this is my take on Gronath's thing) hindering him from setting up a character. Bad form all around, as he can't really do anything to you because he's not set up. The set-up stage is widely considered to be an ooRP time, because the Xenos have to fly all the way to the Omicrons to get their ships. OORP much? Yes. If you, say, run across a Xeno going to/returning from that trip, would you blow him up?
Just be nice, remember the Golden Rule: Do to others what you want them to do to you.
The reply to the above poster, woulda prolly been what I put here. I dont view it as me being a jerk, as I've had this number pulled on me numerous time's, and justified by vet players quoteing rules and RP conduct. What I find being a jerk is whineing, complaining about it and sticking your buddies on the person for further harrassment, especially in this case when the person was a bloody XA whom docked at Manhatten just weeks earlier that you didnt wanna report because you was trying to show alittle leaniance and brotherly love, while understanding that hey its just a game right.
To be or not to be? - Dusty Lens - 05-29-2008
' Wrote:The reply to the above poster, woulda prolly been what I put here. I dont view it as me being a jerk, as I've had this number pulled on me numerous time's, and justified by vet players quoteing rules and RP conduct. What I find being a jerk is whineing, complaining about it and sticking your buddies on the person for further harrassment, especially in this case when the person was a bloody XA whom docked at Manhatten just weeks earlier that you didnt wanna report because you was trying to show alittle leaniance and brotherly love, while understanding that hey its just a game right.
I'm asking again for the screenshot, either dance your dance or get off the stage.
If one of my people docked as a full fledged Xeno on Manhattan such as you're claiming I'll submit the sanction report myself.