Law-enforcement players impunity

Law-enforcement players impunity - Printable Version

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Law-enforcement players impunity - Pavel - 12-14-2012

Right, pirates can't destroy traders before issuing demand (although if demand is "duel me, then, hue hue...), what about navy and police players? We already have situation when they can enforce player-estabilished inRP laws, ergo we have situation when players indirectly set up server rules. Blood Diamonds are contraband in Rheinland, but they aren't in Bretonia, RFP can destroy your ship if you refuse to drop them and pay fines, BPA cannot issue such demand; that'd be against Bretonian law.

But, what in situation when navy (or police) player just seek reason to destroy you, all "in accordance with the law" ? You don't have any contraband/banned equipment on your ship, yet you still are being ordered to don't move. In a moment you try to go, after few minutes, police states you violated their orders. Or they dislike your thruster (you have Cheetah, for example), and start shooting you.

Because
they
can.

Isn't this abuse?

In my opinion there should be clear rules what navy/police players can do while fulfilling their inRP policing duties and what they can't, similarly to rule 6.6,

Quote:6.6 Aggressors are not allowed to destroy a trade vessel prior to issuing a demand, in system or local chat, and allowing sufficient time to respond. Demands may be cargo, credits or an RP demand, such as leaving the system. "Halt" is not a demand. You must say more than this to ask a ship to stop however you may destroy them if they attempt escape.

I want to avoid situations when navy/police players can go away with, truth be told, sometimes pure lolwuttism.

For example, do comm channel "regulations" count as official law, although they aren't posted here? In my opinion executing rules which aren't in "the laws of Sirius" should be sanctionable. They are buried somewhere in the deeps of communication channel subforum, how players can know about them? This all should be clear and simple, both in inRP laws and in server rules, for what police can shoot you down and for what they can't.

RE: Law-enforcement players impunity - Madvillain - 12-14-2012

It really depends man.
Sometimes police brutality is valid RP , sometimes common sense should be enough.
When I am on my law enforcing characters I often find myself dealing with the same category of ´´lolwhuttism´´ that you recognise in some law enforcement characters.

Anyway , the laws of sirius DO need an update and i find it really sad that people don´t take time to tidy them up.

it needs tidy.

RE: Law-enforcement players impunity - Hawk - 12-14-2012

This has come up a few times. You will get a wide variety of opinions here. I once saw and LPI officer destroy a shuttle because he wouldn't pay a fine for a broken tail light. First off, no one is creating new server rules with RP laws since no one can be sanctioned for breaking the law. Beyond that the best advice I can offer is this. If you think someone has crossed the line with the rules file a sanction report.

RE: Law-enforcement players impunity - Chase - 12-14-2012

Quote:5.2 All attacks must be the result of some form of role play.

Quote:6.6 Aggressors are not allowed to destroy a trade vessel prior to issuing a demand... Demands may be cargo, credits or an RP demand...

Quote:6.9 You must follow the restrictions/allowances of your ID, as well as the diplomacy of the NPC faction it represents.

Now, for example on all police IDs is the following line.

Quote:"Can demand contraband, levy fines, and destroy ships if they refuse to comply with contraband demands, refuse to cooperate or are affiliated with a house at war with [Police's House]..."

This specifically states that if any ship refuses a demand or order from someone with a police ID, the person with that police ID can destroy the ship.

Provided they request something that is not unreasonable (100 million in backed luxury taxes) and/or does not automatically result in the death of the character ("Jump out the airlock and kill yourself smuggling scum!"), they can demand whatever they want.

Now, the problem with this is that we aren't sure if paying a fine is considered "cooperating" or not. From my view, it is considered not cooperating just as if they refused to leave the system or vicinity of a station if asked.

RE: Law-enforcement players impunity - Hone - 12-14-2012

I once got blown up with a kujira full of ore, by an armed forces gunboat. I wasnt breaking any laws and it was very annoying. However overzealous, and even corrupt officials can be INRP, they exist in real life. SO I guess Chase is right. On my BPA I have killed many people for not stopping when ordered.

RE: Law-enforcement players impunity - Ursus - 12-14-2012

All of the lawful factions have the right to engage if a ship "refuses to cooperate", which is basicallly another way of saying that they can engage corps or unlawfuls for (almost) any reason. I have a /2 for people who "refuse to comply" with lawful order.

(12-14-2012, 05:46 PM)Pavel Wrote: Right, pirates can't destroy traders before issuing demand (although if demand is "duel me, then, hue hue...)

Again, that wasn't a piracy demand, it was RP before the engagement. House unlawfuls can engage anybody. Piracy is not the only path to engagement.

RE: Law-enforcement players impunity - EisenSeele - 12-16-2012

(12-14-2012, 07:26 PM)Hone Wrote: I once got blown up with a kujira full of ore, by an armed forces gunboat. I wasnt breaking any laws and it was very annoying.

If it was the HMS-Ultima.Ratio, then apparently you were carrying the ore to Kusari during the Kusari-Bretonia war. At least, that's what I was told as an amusing story of the time someone pulled a 'Hone' on 'Hone' by the original owner XD

RE: Law-enforcement players impunity - Hone - 12-16-2012

(12-16-2012, 08:29 AM)EisenSeele Wrote:
(12-14-2012, 07:26 PM)Hone Wrote: I once got blown up with a kujira full of ore, by an armed forces gunboat. I wasnt breaking any laws and it was very annoying.

If it was the HMS-Ultima.Ratio, then apparently you were carrying the ore to Kusari during the Kusari-Bretonia war. At least, that's what I was told as an amusing story of the time someone pulled a 'Hone' on 'Hone' by the original owner XD

No I was carrying it to liberty because thats where the best price was.

EDIT:

He claimed he did it because GMG was part of kusari, then claimed I had been going to kusari when I reminded him it wasnt. In fact I believe this was it:

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