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+--- Thread: POBs not working out (/showthread.php?tid=92609)
POBs not working out - Ursus - 01-16-2013
My opinion, player-owned bases bring some good things to the game, however this is outweighed by the bad things. For example they are good sources of dynamic role-play, but then we get things like EFL corporate base shooting GRN ships on-sight, Hogosha base shooting KNF ships on-sight, etc--that is some awful roleplay resulting from too much dynamism. There are a lot of things like this, where letting people build bases wherever they can get away with it, is outweighed by people who have built bases wherever they could get away with it.
The worst thing about them is the fact that they emphasize player-owned bases, which makes them oorp from the very beginning. The game is setup so that you are supposed to choose a faction and then play that faction, with rules and/or social pressure against things like clan wars, pick-your-tech, etc. POBs turn that whole thing upside down by making a permanent militarized object that belongs to the player and/or their skype clan, rather than to a faction. This has resulted in the faction model being ignored entirely (people using warring factions to supply a base, or docking their lawfuls and unlawfuls on the same base, etc). The absolute worst thing is that the server rules are essentially waived whenever POBs are involved in something. You can sit in your base and give console commands to have it fire on random passing ships, and the admins will just ignore any complaints.
Short version, they are not compatible, and its not sustainable. I am interested in discussion about possible paths forward, especially as involves keeping the good parts.
One idea, is to make the weapon platforms purely defensive only. This function already exists, so basically it would mean eliminating the aggro parts of the code.
Another idea would be to have some pre-made stations that can be captured. For example, there are a bunch of NPC bases in New London, turn a couple of them into derelicts and remove their commodities, and let people try to take control of them and then supply like normal to keep them operational. You could add a couple more in strategic places, like at Cambridge and Dublin gates, and let people fight for them too. This would solve a bunch of problems, and still allow the good things like dynamic role-play and player activity.
RE: POBs not working out - ryoken - 01-16-2013
Yup I agree. They were put into the game with 0 thought, and now they are ruining the game. They are sooo OORP it is not funny. Other day i chased a rogue to a POB, who then docked, and a LSF came out, and told me this was LSF base, and Navy were not wanted near it. How the Frack is that RP?
RE: POBs not working out - Amon.Cire - 01-16-2013
I see what you are both saying. I really like the idea of bases you can fight over. it lets battles actually mean something in game, with consequences. Sets up battle lines and what not. Not sure how it wouldn't just turn into a giant swap fest though, with a base being taken whenever the owning faction is inactive.
RE: POBs not working out - Duvelske - 01-16-2013
(01-16-2013, 05:22 PM)ryoken Wrote: Yup I agree. They were put into the game with 0 thought, and now they are ruining the game. They are sooo OORP it is not funny. Other day i chased a rogue to a POB, who then docked, and a LSF came out, and told me this was LSF base, and Navy were not wanted near it. How the Frack is that RP?If some base is RP'ed for like Molly. think that is a nice example. They have turrets. but you won't see anyone docking there who is not on their list (at least i believe) also you can ask inRP if they want to put you on their list. In such case i saw its used good. But as you say a LR and LSF relogs.. that is way ooRP. also that guy is then violating. as you where chasing and he docks.. and relogs. when docked he is PVP death and may not enter that system with any of his chars.. (its his bad that its a system where his base is.) And as you say its a LSF base its another violation in my views. LSF allied with LR? (might let admins warn the owners of that base. and if too much violation maybe more harsh measures.)
also i think its up to Cannon to decide. I love the bases. it's handy in my view. And i like to RP my base. But if its abused like that. or for only "toy" making. (haven seen bases build ONLY for making factories for some modules) why not add 1 more thing needed in the cargo for making a base? Like an approval token so it will be an RP base? like some sort SRP request?
for everyone thinking allready. NO NO NO.. i would just say think what contribute to it to make people even think about these suggestions?
RE: POBs not working out - AshHill07 - 01-16-2013
(01-16-2013, 05:22 PM)ryoken Wrote: Yup I agree. They were put into the game with 0 thought, and now they are ruining the game. They are sooo OORP it is not funny. Other day i chased a rogue to a POB, who then docked, and a LSF came out, and told me this was LSF base, and Navy were not wanted near it. How the Frack is that RP?
A base name would be nice. I'm sure the [LN] would love to gun it down if its made by some random indies that didn't ask for permission.
RE: POBs not working out - Hone - 01-16-2013
I think POBs are an awesome addition, but I agree they are not implemented perfectly, but then, what is? As with most problems its down to the players, weather actively - like using oorp ships to supply bases. Or apathetically like the KNF not doing anything about a hogosha base outside their planet, that shoots GMG, and anyone else hostile to hogosha.
RE: POBs not working out - Jack_Henderson - 01-16-2013
I don't think POBs are a big problem.
Most of the visible one are well-rped and are being taken care of by factions that are clearly identified.
Most bases are so far off or so well hidden that they cause no problem (only for a few who want them gone). Who really cares whether a base in Newcastle, 70 k off plane is suplied by a wild indie mix?
A few bases cause(d) problems, but these problems should be solved on an individual basis (irp or oorp) instead of critizising the complete addition of POBs.
The solutions to the problems that are mentioned in the OP would be so damn easy:
> Hogo base: set guns on "shoot only when shot at" parameter.
> Visible RP like the "I would like to get permisison to this base" threads
> Good description in the Player Base section and in the Player base status list.
> perhaps rethink the consequences for gameplay for those bases that block access to systems (e.g. King's Cross, Goldern Coin) because they reduce activity in the system (= imo bad oorply), while their irp intentions are logical and good.
Resume: There is no problem with POB in general. There are probs with a few. These few should be worked at.
RE: POBs not working out - Xelon - 01-16-2013
(01-16-2013, 08:21 PM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: -snip-
> perhaps rethink the consequences for gameplay for those bases that block access (e.g. King's Cross, Goldern Coin) because they reduce activity in the system (= imo bad oorply), while their irp intentions are logical and good.
*cough* I'll need to say that neither KC nor the Goldner Coin block access to their base, you just need to ask nicely for permission to dock.
my 2 cents.
RE: POBs not working out - Oystein Baadsvik - 01-17-2013
(01-16-2013, 10:22 PM)Xelon Wrote: *cough* I'll need to say that neither KC nor the Goldner Coin block access to their base, you just need to ask nicely for permission to dock.
my 2 cents.
He mean't that they block access to systems. Goldern Coin blocks a JH and Kings cross a JG.
I agree that there are a few problem player bases out there, but most cause few problems. And a few even are very beneficial to the community, in terms of usefulness and RP. While it would be nice if there was a way to make players RP their bases better and not OORP dock etc. Lolwuts will be lolwuts and most apsect of the server suffers this.
I still believe in trying to teach and encourage better RP to such players, but perhaps if there are other constructive ideas to the problem, then there might be another way.
RE: POBs not working out - ryoken - 01-17-2013
I would disclose the location of the base i mentioned, but i am done with POBs, and the lack of thier RP.
Base i seen allows just about all to dock at it. Seen rogues/xenos/hackers/casts on pirate side. All 4 houses on traders side dock there. And all 3 lib Lawfuls. Most OORP BS i ever seen. Shows up neutral to every ship i took to it.
Report players for sanctions? Breaking rules? PLEASE! I have wasted to much time in the past with reports that went no where from swearing to, no RP PvPs, to players diing over and over and re-ingaging.
Discovery is not what it used to be, and not for the better.