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+--- Thread: A Proposal - Making Carriers Useful (/showthread.php?tid=95381)
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A Proposal - Making Carriers Useful - Thunderer - 03-11-2013
As we all know, a carrier in most cases won't stand a fight versus a battleship. Some carriers are more resistant to snubs, but it is much better and a lot cheaper to use gunboats against them.
So, I've gotten an idea. It involves splitting nanobots and shield batteries into two classes - one for small ships (fighters, bombers and freighters) and the other one for larger ones. Small ships, except the Repair Ship, should be able to carry only regens designed for them, while gunboats and transports should carry only regens designed for the larger ships.
However, it becomes a bit different with cruisers and battleships. They are able to carry both types. Gunboats can't, because they need to be as small as possible, while transports have no need and should be made as cheaply as possible. That is what gives the carriers and advantage. Anyways, let's be direct:
Different kinds of regens should regenerate the same amount of hull/shield. Their only difference is that they can be used only on ship classes which they are made for. That way, a battleship wouldn't be able to bot feed a fleet of fighters, but a carrier would be needed. Of course, a battleship would also be capable of bot feeding, just much less. Here's some scaling:
- Destroyers should carry about 30 - 50 snub regens;
- Cruisers 50 - 70;
- Battlecruisers 70 - 90;
- Battleships 90 - 150;
- Repair ships should be left with 4000 large regens and be equipped with maybe about 500 - 700 small ones;
- And, here it is - carriers - 300 - 600 small regens. It can maybe look overpowered, but what are carriers for, than supporting snubs?
There is also an RP explanation. It is clear snubs and caps must use a bit different kinds of hull material - snubs need light weight, while caps need cheap alloys, because huge amount of them is used, and also sturdiness. Snub shields are small and weak, so they maybe use a different kind of energy, while caps need huge amounts of power to cover their vast hulls with shielding, what makes them use more sophisticated sources of energy.
I'm aware this, if it even enters something, won't enter 4.87. But, there is time. I hope Disco will survive until then, and longer.
So... What do you say?
RE: A Proposal - Making Carriers Useful - EisenSeele - 03-11-2013
Would be better if snubs didn't have regens, and docked on carriers mid battle to repair.
RE: A Proposal - Making Carriers Useful - Thunderer - 03-11-2013
Yes, yes. A good idea. It would also shorten sometimes boringly and annoyingly long snub fights.
RE: A Proposal - Making Carriers Useful - Lythrilux - 03-11-2013
(03-11-2013, 12:14 PM)EisenSeele Wrote: Would be better if snubs didn't have regens, and docked on carriers mid battle to repair.
+1
A lot of snub fights vs caps are just really irritating.
They're much more fun in a conn style environment.
RE: A Proposal - Making Carriers Useful - nOmnomnOm - 03-11-2013
NO REGENS!?!?!?!??!?!
Not everyone is an ace you know. If you drop regens then you might as well lower the re-spawn time again...
I don't see how snub fights take really long. If its too long for you then change your tactic. Get a MR or get missiles. Something.
RE: A Proposal - Making Carriers Useful - Alvin - 03-11-2013
The idea I am suggesting may sound really extreme and may overhaul the game play, and it probably needs more thought to it but ill chip in my initial two cents worth of outline anyway.
I am not really good at grammar so try to read all of it and understand it first before making a decision or you might get the wrong idea. (Basically try to hear me out first)
What I Proprose:
- Removing / Reducing Snub Bots and Bats on Fighters,
- Removing snub re-engagement rules to instant only in Criteria below (Hold your breath, dont kill me yet)
- (Allowed ONLY if there is a capital engagement between warring faction, with the carrier in the conflict zone at visible range, and the fighters are docked into it.)
- Only Snub craft are docked in carrier allowed to undock and rengage, any other docking are not allowed.
- May need better anti-sub guns only for Capitals for defensive purpose as caps can get easily destroyed already with bombers, not to mention unlimited supply of them now.
What I vision to achieve:
- Gives impression of snub craft are more expendable and more in "numbers" than Capital ships
- Give carrier more strategic role in the discovery universe,
- Make Carrier more a "Flagship" role, less frontal assault and more defensive stance in return bonus advantage for snub crafts (Take one for the team)
- Forces battle group to organize (maybe) ? Capitals to defend flagship instead of leaving it open head on pew ?
- More snub deaths instead of constant boring re-gens, so you feel like achieving something and encourage you to go on even if losing, instead of your soul crying inside from forever pewing
Advantages
- Stated before, more fighters and bombers get shot down instead of constant boring regen that last forever
- Shot down snubs takes time (well 30 seconds) to return to the battlefield
- Limited of snub numbers in the field with the number of docking bays, so you cant take 20 snubs and have forever
- Gives use for docking bays, since its more of an unused novelty item at the moment
- Makes Carriers separate from a oversize battleship with a role to play (pretty much what topic is about)
- Gives carrier more reserved style and value piece of than being completely useless in all areas.
Disadvantages
- Needs more planning and testing + rule support or loopholes can be abused
- Unfair One faction with access to carrier + snub and another faction without access carrier + snub
- Unforeseen side effects that are not related
- Cloak may ruin it ?
- Rules need rewriting, ship stats needs rewriting.
- And anything you guys can think of.
But yeah, this idea sounded more like a dream than actual reality, so just spilling it out to see what you people think about it.
RE: A Proposal - Making Carriers Useful - Scumbag - 03-11-2013
I havent been in any large fight on anything other than a snub but i can see your points and understand what you are thinking and i like it. The removal of re-engagment on that criteria can be done right now, with an instant effect and improvement.
+1 from me
RE: A Proposal - Making Carriers Useful - Haste - 03-11-2013
Issue: Not every faction has access to carriers - or other capitals, for that matter. It also makes small hunting parties of snubs practically useless against groups with a capital. I'd say capitals should not be made more effective against snubs. Expendable fighters can more easily kill expendable bombers before a capital goes down anyways.
Oh.. And with weaker snubs capital spam will become even more annoying. Should have some sort of cost associated with fielding capitals. Maybe some "fuel" disguised as "ammo" that you have to buy in order for your power core to be > 0 that costs, say, 100 million credits and is lost on death. Death penalty isn't a popular thing, I know, but it'd be necessary with weaker snubs or everyone will just spam gunboats and caps.
RE: A Proposal - Making Carriers Useful - Thunderer - 03-11-2013
(03-11-2013, 07:29 PM)Hasteric Wrote: Issue
Alright, then don't remove the regens and stay with my first proposal. Caps will still give an advantage, just less of it. They should give it - why would they otherwise be used, if snubs are so mighty alone?
RE: A Proposal - Making Carriers Useful - AshHill07 - 03-11-2013
Why not just reduce the amount snubs can carry to enough to repair themself just once or twice like capitals. Many snubs seem to carry enough to essentially fully repair thier ship about 4 times. Whereas many caps will be lucky to be able to do it once.
Also, I do think that opening up the shops on dockable ships so people can buy from an unlimited supply of bots bats and ammunition will actually make people consider using docking modules. Right now they're very rare, since all having once seems to do is put the capital at a disadvantage.