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+--- Thread: Small transports (and freighters) and Freelancers and such (/showthread.php?tid=98897)
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Small transports (and freighters) and Freelancers and such - Syrus - 05-21-2013
More variety!
So, first off, almost everyone wants to use the biggest ships allowed by an ID.
Only money decides a bit whether to buy something or not in the end.
Some will rather take a slightly smaller transport over the very expensive bigger
5k transports.
Now, assuming that you do not want a nerf, don't feel like flying a liner as a
transport is the right thing to do and you still wish to use the Freelancer ID...
You have only 2 or 3 choices for what to fly in this range.
First, the BWT, with 3500 cargo space and which first of all is horribly textured,
second has problems docking with lanes at the moment. Turrets are alright,
agility is fine. Same with size. Pretty much a good transport if it wasn't for those
horrible textures and that annoying docking bug.
Second, the Firefly, also with 3500 cargo space. This ship has lots of turrets,
with rather annoying arcs. Four turrets in most directions, while it feels like it
could have more in that direction if the turrets just turned more. Anyway,
defensewise it's not the worst, but it does not win a medal. It got even worse
textures and it's an import. Just not my choice. Still, it does its job rather well,
has decent armor and good agility. Both a bit better than the BWT's. Even got a
CD, unlike the BWT, for when you got the itch to horribly ... throw fluffy balls of
pink wool at him. Or whatever people use the CD for.
Third, the Heron. This ship has less cargo - a hold of 3000 only. Therefore it
comes with more agility, shiny cargo pods - you love shiny, don't you!? - a bit
less armor than the BWT, but about the same powercore as both. Turret
placement and arcs aren't that great, they are clustered around the front with a
single turret at the rear. It's not as bad as with the Crane or Stork, but also not as
great as with the BWT, which can fire at least seven turrets to the side. This thing
here can fire six turrets at best, and that only at very limited angles. It can fire five
to the front though. Also has a CD for that weird stuff people tend to do. It comes
at about 2/3rds of the price of the others for the reduced cargo hold, which is quit
nice. Not as easy to hit as the Firefly as well.
Now. That's all. From 3000 to 3500, without nerfs, there's no other transport for
you Freelancers. And that in a game called Freelancer.
I find it very sad, that many of the nice vessels we got ingame are not used by
players. That includes most ships with less than 3000 cargo space and
freighters.
First of all, I'd like to suggest changing the powercore nerf for ships with less than
3600 cargo space:
All IDs (including those limited to 3.6k) that can use these cell's transports with a
nerf to 90% power core should get the small (<3.6k) transports at 100%.
(For example, while Bret Military get's 90% core on a Shire, they'd get 100% on
a Percheron!)
Second, the Albatross. This ship has, like the Heron, four cargo pods. Yet it still
has only 2000 units of cargo hold. Same with the Gull, which has only 1000
units, while it has two cargo pods. I suggest changing them to 3k and 1.5k.
Next, every house should have a 3k transport.
So, I suggest to have the Big Dragon be resized a bit, so it fits more along the
lines of a proper 3k transport, and have its cargospace reduced to 3k.
The Behemoth as well as the Gallic Assault Transport are fine as they are.
The Kamome, Percheron and the Mammoth on the other hand both could also
use an upsizing of their cargo holds, so that every house has the same sizes of
transports available, even in the lower range.
Though it'd even be better if these transports were all sized to 3250 to 3500 units
of cargo space.
Every ship should of course get the respective price, power core, agility and
armor changes done, so they are balanced along the lines of the other ships of
their size.
There are a few other transports:
The Raba, which is fine as it is, as it is a combat transport meant for piracy.
The Nanga Parbat, Bumblebee, Celestra and the beforementioned Gull. The
Celestra is a special ship, meant for iRP marines transportation. The Gull will be
fine with 1.5k cargospace as a starter ship. Maybe with a little price reduction
(same could go for all other civ trains).
The Bumblebee and Nanga Parbat on the other hand I don't really know what to
do with. Later one could be upsized, but the IMG will already get a
Battletransport. So ... no idea.
But what will newbies do then!?
At last I think it'd be good to increase the cargo hold sizes for freighters to up to
500 to 1000 units, with them also being balanced about the same for every house.
RE: Small transports (and freighters) and Freelancers and such - Karst - 05-21-2013
I think nobody would mind more transports in the 3.5k class.
It's simply a lot of work to model, skin, and code new ships. Some are being worked on and we ought to see more variety in .87 (as well as the nasty Firefly gone).
Some specific points: Having everyone get 100% core on house transports is totally unnecessary. 90% is very nearly meaningless on transports; they work fine.
The Big Dragon is actually a very nice ship for freelancers if you ask me, only about 10% cargo less than BWT or Firefly, much cheaper, and looks really cool in my opinion (like all Kusari ships except the Akegata, come to think of it).
I suggest leaving it as it is.
On the subject of the Albatross and Heron: I totally agree, same number of pods should mean same cargo capacity as the front section doesn't look like it's intended to carry cargo, or at least not a whole lot.
I wouldn't mind seeing the Gull and Albatross bumped up to 1500 and 3000 cargo, and the Heron eliminated altogether. The proportions look way off on it anyway, it's much too short compared to the enormous bow section.
It also makes no sense that the miniscule Pelican has only 20% less cargo space than the Gull, although that's mainly due to the Pelican having a totally unreasonable amount of cargo space.
It should be half of what it is now or less.
The Nanga Parbat is fine the way it is, as it is mainly intended for mining.
The Celestra I've personally never seen, but I guess it's also fine. I imagine it kinda like a Pelican.
The Bumblebee is probably my very favorite transport, I just love the way it looks. Not to mention its incredible handling.
It's supposed to be an entry-level transport and it fills that role wonderfully. It's also superb for small, mainly RP-related deliveries. Leave it as it is.
RE: Small transports (and freighters) and Freelancers and such - AeternusDoleo - 05-21-2013
Some of the smaller transports are more useful as NPC fodder for those who want to make a living off of cargo piracy. Something that'll also be a means to gain credits as an unlawful due to the way Xoria managed to edit the economy... lots of cargo types will have lots of salepoints, lawful and unlawful. IMG's Nanga, and the Bumble are good examples of that. The Gull not so much, it's too small even for NPC usage.
Firefly will need a replace, so I'm not going to waste time patching up what we have on that ship. It's an import, it will be dropped.
Percheron and Shire are both house civvy, so will always have the same nerfage. Will probably be no nerf for any house faction, but that's on the to-be-determined list for when the rephacks and techsharing is set. If things work out as planned, there will be no balance issues between gun and ship anymore, so the previous gameplay issues could be dropped.
RE: Small transports (and freighters) and Freelancers and such - jammi - 05-21-2013
Plus Swallow is working on a whole garage of mid-sized transports that should alleviate this problem. They might not make it in initially, but they'll be in the later betas (providing they're fully finished and submitted).
RE: Small transports (and freighters) and Freelancers and such - Syrus - 05-21-2013
My thinking with the small house transports was along the way that they would be sold rather freely to Freelancers and the likes and smaller corporations (represented by Freelancer IDs ingame). Thereby those small transports would be available widely and their repair materials would also be rather easy to get, so the nerf of the power core isn't really fitting anymore. ooRPly it would be to give the Freelancers more variety when they wish to choose which transport fits them best. One might play a Rheinland Freelancer, the other a Bretonian Freelancer, the next a Borderworld guy. A 90% nerf might not be that much, but it's still "yet another reason not to buy small house transports". And be honest, who besides Freelancers or other limited IDs really flies them for trading?
The Firefly - I thought we had a replacement for it already. Guess I was wrong. Well, seeing that ship being dropped (completly!?) gives the limited IDs even less ships to choose from, making my suggestion more interesting in my opionion.
NPC "piracy" - well, the increased size of the Gull's cargo hold should make that ship a viable option as well. Also the freighters might be more of an option with bigger holds, maybe? Nanga Parbat and Bumblebee can stay as they are, they are just never (or VERY rarely) used by players. Fine with me. Main issue is giving more ships to choose from between 3k and 3.6k cargo space.
EDIT: I really wish to point out the Gull and Albatross changes, they'd be at least a start towards more ships in that range. Especially since they are vanilla ships which were used A LOT in vanilla and which are Sirian civilian.
RE: Small transports (and freighters) and Freelancers and such - Highland Laddie - 05-21-2013
Freighters just seem like they are made to be passed-by as soon as possible. They're not quite maneuverable for pvp against snubs, and are too weak to take on anything bigger. Their smaller cargo size also means that, aside from solely RP purposes, most players who are trying to make money might will probably try to bypass them and go for a transport asap.
I wouldn't mind seeing if Freighters had increased cargo ranges up to about 2.5k units, whilst the bigger Corporate transports went up from 5k to nearly 8-10k.
RE: Small transports (and freighters) and Freelancers and such - jammi - 05-21-2013
The Firefly isn't being dropped - AD's just not wasting any of his time on it until Swallow's replacement boat turns up.
And Laddie, seriously, buy yourself a Gateway Clydesdale and try and qualify that statement you've made. You'll have tons of fun harassing pirates (and competition).
RE: Small transports (and freighters) and Freelancers and such - Karst - 05-21-2013
(05-21-2013, 02:56 PM)Highland Laddie Wrote: Freighters just seem like they are made to be passed-by as soon as possible. They're not quite maneuverable for pvp against snubs, and are too weak to take on anything bigger. Their smaller cargo size also means that, aside from solely RP purposes, most players who are trying to make money might will probably try to bypass them and go for a transport asap.
I wouldn't mind seeing if Freighters had increased cargo ranges up to about 2.5k units, whilst the bigger Corporate transports went up from 5k to nearly 8-10k.
Have you ever flown one of the stronger freighters, such as the Grizzly? Eight forward guns. 195 bots and that juicy freighter shield. The ability to mount Heavy and Capital armor upgrades. Plus mines of course.
They are more than a match for most fighters, non-snacing bombers and transports with mediocre equipment.
To top it off, they get extra cruise speed to catch up with anything that isn't a LF.
Seriously, freighters are pretty darn good all-rounder combat vessels. (Except the horribly underpowered X-Shuttle)
RE: Small transports (and freighters) and Freelancers and such - Highland Laddie - 05-21-2013
Quote:They are more than a match for most fighters, non-snacing bombers and transports with mediocre equipment.
So what you're saying is they are good ships for skilled players to go preying upon noobs...because as far as I've seen:
a) only noob bomber pilots don't use a snac
b) most skilled pilots do their work in snubs, not freighters
c) no skilled trader is going to be flying around in a transport with mediocre equipment.
@jammi - actually, I've been testing out trying to use an Anki as a Gateway combat vessel with...moderate success. Maybe it's just me, but I'm more of a bomber pilot.
The best use I've ever gotten out of freighters was as exploration vessels. My overall point is just that, if we're honest, you don't see too many freighters outside of new players who are really just grinding towards getting a transport, and after that they are very few and far-between. I think you would see more of them if you upped the cargo space on them and the larger transports, respectively.
RE: Small transports (and freighters) and Freelancers and such - Karst - 05-21-2013
From what I gather, the Anki isn't exactly the best of freighters if you're looking at fighting in it.
a) Not true; plenty of bombers have Novas to combat heavier targets regardless of skill.
That having been said, even snac bombers can fall to freighters.
b) Their loss. I've spent a decent amount of time in conn in my Grizzly and I've only once lost to a fighter.
c) But most traders aren't skilled. The vast, huge majority either doesn't have armor, doesn't have guns, doesn't have regens, or any of the above. That's the same fact that makes fighter piracy actually work.
Freighters are great exploration vessels, absolutely.
They don't have the same cargo space as small transports because they have 200 rather than 140 thruster speed, 395 rather than 350 cruise speed, can mount fighter weapons and mine droppers.
They are a totally different class of ship.