The Technocracy-Vagrant Question

[Vendetta]

So I'm sure there's a few questions bouncing around right now about the state of affairs between the Vagrants and The Technocracy. Zephyranthes and I would like to clear up a few things, and address questions before assumptions are made and conclusions jumped to. So here's some clarification.

So what happened?

There's been some ongoing discussion between Auxo's HC and the Vagrants about the arrangement the two have had, and how it has been represented/handled in-game. Unfortunately it's of the mutual opinion that the relationship has been rather harmful to each group's ability to independently operate, and a loss of identity is being felt across the board.

This has led to instances in which playing as either hasn't been an enjoyable experience for some people, and leaving others feeling inescapably joined at the hip. We (the Technocracy people) have felt as though we've been pigeonholed into a role as a supportive cult, in lieu of a Vagrant-oriented Wild faction which has otherwise felt like robbing us of our actual identity. Something we worked hard to create since the beginning when we still had our silly little Freelancer IFF.

Why tho?

Simple - People have a rather generalized and standard reaction to seeing anyone or anything being remotely close or green repped with anything Nomad. Obviously that's a problem we can't address directly, so we have to take steps to draw clear lines between what exactly this relationship is supposed to be. The way it is now has resulted in a lot of negative interactions and made roleplay that doesn't involve both parties at the same time feel more or less impossible. This isn't a role the Technocracy wants, nor is it a role the Vagrants want to have us in.

So what now?

WELL - The roleplay aspect isn't dead. There was a time where Nomads once had a nodock relationship with the Outcasts, which gave them some semblance of a relationship and permitted all that funky cult stuff back in the day. The entire point of this relationship was an under-the-table attempt to get close to our enemies, explore an alternative approach to solving the Nomad threat and all that fun, spooky shady stuff. That arrangement still included some level of shooting The Vagrants, in the event they violated territory or put the relationship at risk. This actually happened a few times and led to a renegotiation of terms a few months ago.

That renegotiation however didn't change anything at all. We're still locked in a position as the Vagrant's only allies, and vice versa despite literally everything else the faction has done in its existence with other groups to an even greater effect than we've ever done for each other.

So we're changing things up. We're pursuing no-docks down the line and figuring out how to be less stuck at the hip. We're going back to the days of shooting each other.

@Zephyranthes take (Vagrant OF POV):

For our part, we've struggled a lot as Vagrants to define ourselves and create a faction that's compelling and breaks the mold. A lot of times, we've been pigeonholed into the traditionally adversarial role of humanity's archrival, despite our roleplay and insistence over the years on adopting a more adaptable, evolving, even diplomatic stance. There's a desire to push us closer into K'Hara to the point of practically reabsorbing the Vagrants, but no one in the faction nor its indies actually wants this to happen. On the flipside, being tied to Aux has made us rely upon them entirely for development and anything related to diplomacy for a while now. The benefit of the doubt is not extended to either faction from human parties, who seem intent on lumping us both in the category of traditional Nomad cultists and genocidal Nomads. And with our whole schtick being alliances and negotiations with humans, it's hampered by the fact that people won't do things (OORP and inRP) with a group that is actively trying to screw them over.

Honestly, I feel the only way forward is to break the alliance for the time being, give Vagrants their own dedicated Wild faction, even out the IDs of Vagrants and Nomads/K'Hara more, and allow Vagrants to engage in actions against the other Nomads. Ideally, this might finally allow for perception to change regarding us and finally give both factions room to breathe and develop. We resent that the playerbases of our faction have never had much say in our own identities, despite all the work and writing and effort that has been done over the years to develop that. We firmly believe there is a better way forward here.

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Anywho I hope this clears up why things'll be different going forward, and I hope that any questions can be answered here.

tl;dr we're gonna try and make things fun again

[EisenSeele]

It's always respectable to see people finding out what they want and making tangible steps to getting it. Good luck - let me know if there's anything I can do to help validate your new directions!

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FEEDBACK

[TheSauron]

Seeing this thread, I can't help but ask a few questions. I understand they may come across as a bit confrontational, but they're genuine.

Simple - People have a rather generalized and standard reaction to seeing anyone or anything being remotely close or green repped with anything Nomad. Obviously that's a problem we can't address directly

Why do you consider this a problem? What sort of nuance do you think people are missing here, given the nature of the Nomads and their intentions towards mankind?

That renegotiation however didn't change anything at all. We're still locked in a position as the Vagrant's only allies, and vice versa despite literally everything else the faction has done in its existence with other groups to an even greater effect than we've ever done for each other.

Why do you find it surprising that aligning with alien killing machines bent on exterminating mankind overshadows your other diplomatic efforts?

A lot of times, we've been pigeonholed into the traditionally adversarial role of humanity's archrival, despite our roleplay and insistence over the years on adopting a more adaptable, evolving, even diplomatic stance.

A lot of times, we (the Gaians) have been pigeonholed into the traditionally adversarial role of Planetform's archrival, despite our roleplay and insistence over the years on adopting a more adaptable, evolving, even pro-terraforming stance.

Can you spot the issue with the above statement?

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One MD Admiral

[Vendetta]

Seeing this thread, I can't help but ask a few questions. I understand they may come across as a bit confrontational, but they're genuine.

Why do you consider this a problem? What sort of nuance do you think people are missing here, given the nature of the Nomads and their intentions towards mankind?

I appreciate the question. The Vagrants have outlined their desire to break from the mold you mentioned above. While true the Nomads are 'the antagonists of the video game!' this is also still a roleplaying community, where people will try to break from the molds they're given to do something unique and more interesting than the foundation they've started with.

I don't consider the inherent reaction to be an overall bad thing, but in the experience of people involved in what is supposed to be an under-the-table deal that had been thrown into a full on alliance we didn't want, it then removes all semblance of an identity and invalidates all of the work, roleplay and effort people have put in for years to stand out. I don't think people are missing nuance so much as they're actively deciding not to look deeper than the surface. For groups which rely on subterfuge and secrecy the overt nature of this alliance has been completely contradicting to the intention of it from the get go.

Why do you find it surprising that aligning with alien killing machines bent on exterminating mankind overshadows your other diplomatic efforts?

Primarily because we didn't align with them, nor have we ever gone out of our way to go "no actually the nomads are right and we should kill humanity." This arrangement was built to try something new, and was pigeonholed into something it never should've become from the get go.

See also the Vagrants statement about wanting to not be viewed the same as the other Nomad factions. Otherwise, what's the point of them having their independent IFF, or all the work they've done to create their little hive as it is?

The Vagrants feel they can't go interact with groups and build connections without having the Technocracy speak on their behalf. The Technocracy not only doesn't want to do this, but can't reliably do it when basically every person has already decided that the information is public knowledge and neither should be trusted at all.

This also boils down to a complete misunderstanding of the concept of what The Technocracy is and has been for a decade, but that's a whole other side of the issue being addressed elsewhere.

A lot of times, we (the Gaians) have been pigeonholed into the traditionally adversarial role of Planetform's archrival, despite our roleplay and insistence over the years on adopting a more adaptable, evolving, even pro-terraforming stance.

Can you spot the issue with the above statement?

Yes, and it's the exact issue of a loss of identity that I was pointing out. What you think is contradictory to how the Vagrants play their role is actually entirely intended and was the purpose of their existence from the get go.

At the end of the day, when you give people the ability to express creative freedom, and that creative freedom leads to the creation of something relatively major (a faction in the game, in this case) but then rob people of the ability to actively continue working towards what they've been doing for a long time, you're functionally sticking people in a box and demanding they play with specific action figures a certain way.

That's not fun. I don't think it's fun for you to be pigeonholed into a role you never asked for, either. It has reached a point now where people on both sides of this alliance do not want it to continue as it has been nothing but demotivating to pursue literally any other direction. I love the game, I love the universe, I appreciate people who go to great lengths to make convincing antagonistic roles, but the Vagrants do not want that, nor do my people want to be tied at the hip and continue giving people the wrong idea that we're some kind of pro-Nomad cult.

Far from it.

[Zephyranthes]

Expanding upon the point laid out prior, I want to further elaborate on the Vagrant perspective in this matter, as well as touch upon broader questions of our identity.

At present, I do not think it is unreasonable to claim that the Vagrants are one of the more esoteric, misrepresented and difficult to understand factions in the mod. Several of our materials are outdated and much of what exists ingame and has occurred through story is incomplete at best. Admittedly, a fair amount of these issues rest upon my own head as leader of the official player faction. I have endeavored to try and write new material for the group, though life issues and my own inability to properly complete these projects has stymied progress. I apologize for this.

What Vagrants have evolved into among our smaller playerbase is a bit at odds with the traditional interpretation of Nomads by the majority of the playerbase. The ingame description specifies that they are a separate mindshare from the Omicron-based Nomads, are in possession of jump technology, and are known to cut deals and collaborate with humans when the need arises. The consequences of the first point and the rationale behind the third point are ill-defined by readily-available resources.

Essentially, Vagrants' experiences away from Sirius and returning to Sirius have forged a new perspective and divergent evolution. Forced to confront the fact that their attempts to oust humanity through force of arms and traditional infiltration had failed, along with needing to adapt to adverse conditions away from the cradle designed by their creators, the Vagrants had to examine how and why humanity was able to overpower them. Pain and hurt and fear all play a role in the Nomad hatred of humans, but with Vagrants, forced into a position where they lacked material support from other Nomads and butted up against humanity, they needed to understand their enemy. Figure out what makes them tick. The natural consequence of such inquisition and investigation is the development of nuance and deliberation, oftentimes, leaving the Vagrants in a puzzling position. They decided playing the diplomatic and political game, rather than the pure manipulation and bloodlust they once knew, might be an effective alternative.

This does not mean their violence has completely evaporated and they became magically friendly Nomads, however. The Vagrants still long to grow, adapt, and pick up the pieces of their forebears' legacy. Humans sit atop this legacy, clumsily exploiting it and risking both its destruction and further untold damage. As such, to often prevent the loss of this legacy, preempt human possession of it, or mere defense (reactive self-defense or preemptive strikes), violence can be the most effective tool. Greedy human exploitation, such as that seen in Earhart, the artifact trade, or crude and dangerous usage of DK tech (human jump drives, adapted blasters, etc.), is often a flashpoint for Vagrant attacks.

This ultimately leads us to Vagrant-Technocrat relations and Vagrant dealings with others as a whole. Technocrats, generally, are a lot better about being mindful with technology and cataloging it, and both groups collaborate on certain scientific endeavors where a human or Nomad perspective can offer new paths. There were no attempts made to subvert or possess the Technocracy, nor did the Technocracy ever provide military or substantial material aid to the Vagrants. Their relationship has had a rather gray status since its inception. This requested change is less of a reversal or change in stance as much as it is a clarification of the present state of affairs.

Vagrants, in studying humans and their workings, understand the importance of good faith and trust in any potential working relationship. Constantly attempting to subvert, trick, or alter the dynamics of a diplomatic connection ultimately undermine the reputation and trustworthiness of any party trying to negotiate. Out of roleplay, this is a huge obstacle for Vagrants doing any kind of diplomacy as stated in their NPC card. No one, inRP and OORP, is terribly willing to engage on a faction level with a group that all but shouts from the rooftops that to deal with them is to invite ruin. Unless the aim of a story being told is to pursue this explicitly, people typically do not engage with it. In a way, despite being a different faction, Vagrants remain pigeonholed into being the archenemy of humanity by virtue of being Nomad. Not even going to get into how Vagrant infection and sympathizers have usually worked or how they should work going forward.

The solution, I believe, is to increase the difference and disparity between the Omicron Nomads and the Vagrants. Make them stand more as gameplay/mechanical opposites and equals (ZoI, ID allowances, etc.), have their own separate infectee groups, and finally, having them slide into hostilities. Perhaps it's foolhardy of me to believe, but I think that if Vagrants were to stand in opposition to their former brethren (who desire, at best, their reassimilation and the ultimate subsuming of their unique identity), it would provide a more solid foundation for humans being led to think that collaboration with the Vagrants isn't so blatantly shooting themselves in the foot. This would go a long way to resolving the identity confusion and lack of direction plaguing the faction.

I am more than happy to clear up misconceptions, discuss further, and open dialogue with those interested in understanding.

[jammi]

Just as a mild piece of commentary, people being suspicious of a Nomad group's motives and long term intentions is an entirely reasonable starting point for basically any sensible human being who has an even passing understanding of what a Nomad is.

"We want to be manipulative schemers but people won't work with us" is a bit of a natural consequence of having already tried to exterminate humanity once and failed.

I think something you should be thinking about quite seriously is what these manipulative schemes actually entail, and what the Vagrants are actually offering the other counterparties to get them to overlook the... well, the obvious.

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[Zephyranthes]

Just as a mild piece of commentary, people being suspicious of a Nomad group's motives and long term intentions is an entirely reasonable starting point for basically any sensible human being who has an even passing understanding of what a Nomad is.

"We want to be manipulative schemers but people won't work with us" is a bit of a natural consequence of having already tried to exterminate humanity once and failed.

I think something you should be thinking about quite seriously is what these manipulative schemes actually entail, and what the Vagrants are actually offering the other counterparties to get them to overlook the... well, the obvious.

I thoroughly agree. It's part of what I addressed in the post above. I'm of the opinion that something radical, like conflict between mindshares, might be a sufficient icebreaker. Well, that and not so openly trying to screw over diplomatic partners "becuz evilz."