Obsidian Zoetic - Officiality Request

[Alley]

Our current relations with liberty is "we don't really go to liberty".

I did see some OZ traders in NY, and mentioning "red is dead" behavior even. Not quite the kind of words you expect from an official faction.

You're going to have a hard time getting officialty on the Zoner ID, especially considering the administration has been attempting to limit the number of factions being on the same ID.

Getting your own ID is... why? You could tell me "the OSI and TAZ got their own, so why not us?" I'd say you're correct but they were based on the Zoner ID initially, it's just their roleplay went into such a different way from the Zoner ID it became necessary to not have the indies affected by reputation changes because more than one official faction had an hold on the ID, thus also affecting others factions on that same ID too. Considering you barely do anything else than take care of your bases in Zeta and trade materials to there, I don't think it's anything that requires it's own ID yet, as you still play on the zoners neutrality roleplay.

The ZOE had much more extensive roleplay and activity, yet did not get it because there was too many factions based on the Zoner ID already, in fact it was such a strange move the ZOE pretty much died afterwards.

So really I don't know, this request seems premature more than anything for the moment.

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Alley was right.

[Doc Holliday]

Some of what I'll say has been stated already but is worth saying again.

While Zoners are a very diverse and individualistic group of people, we agree on one thing, no oppressive governments. They learned that more with the dissolve of both the Council of Zoners and the Zoner Alliance. OSI nor TAZ control Zoner lore nor do they wish to. We each have our own diplomacy, our own relations and problems and we even differ with each other. We are doing exactly what so many wanted, running each group different from another.

OSI and TAZ have been established for some time and it took that long establishment to finally get our own ID. I wouldn't see a problem with an OZ Zoner subfaction but considering how long it took for us to get ours, I can't support an OZ ID.

The faction write-up is pretty good and from what I've read and seen, OZ will already have it's own diplomacy. For now, I'm on the fence.

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[MFE]Med Force One | Tales of Recovery|Med Force Enterprises

[Hone]

do. I'm saying that there is no problem in you becoming official and using the regular Zoner ID and not representing ALL Zoners. No signle Zoner player faction ever has. Doubtful one ever will. Due to reasons both you and I know (What works at Freeport 5 doens't work at 6, Fivers will favor Corsairs over Outcasts in any conflict due to their location, etc etc).

No where does it say that official factions represent the entirety of their NPC faction. It is an option. Something I think Hone doesn't know or doesn't agree with.

Deadric I already said

I disagree

Seeing as you dont want to argue, thats cool by me.

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[Psymple]

Some of what I'll say has been stated already but is worth saying again.

While Zoners are a very diverse and individualistic group of people, we agree on one thing, no oppressive governments. They learned that more with the dissolve of both the Council of Zoners and the Zoner Alliance. OSI nor TAZ control Zoner lore nor do they wish to. We each have our own diplomacy, our own relations and problems and we even differ with each other. We are doing exactly what so many wanted, running each group different from another.

Whilst I do appreciate this to be the view of yourselves and I agree that it should be entirely like this I cant agreed; Hone has already demonstrated that they perceive it differently and I am sure many others would also have a similar view if we were to take the Zoner ID.
This however I suppose is a moot point as I would still not be very comfortable applying "against" Phoenix.

OSI and TAZ have been established for some time and it took that long establishment to finally get our own ID. I wouldn't see a problem with an OZ Zoner subfaction but considering how long it took for us to get ours, I can't support an OZ ID.

The faction write-up is pretty good and from what I've read and seen, OZ will already have it's own diplomacy. For now, I'm on the fence.

I understand the attitude, "it has to be earnt" and I will not say we have or haven't earn't our own ID yet as that is not for me to decide. Usual applications take an arbitrary amount of time I suppose our application is a little different and perhaps it will be treat differently. I am not saying we should be handed what we want on a silver plate and wished good luck I am just asking for a fair shot.

Thank you for your comments and I take it as a complement
that you even made it to the fence.:)

I did see some OZ traders in NY, and mentioning "red is dead" behavior even. Not quite the kind of words you expect from an official faction.

You may be confusing our traders with other people, the only ones that have ever been to liberty are the BWT's, a single liner once and a whale that is able to smuggle through Alaska without dying.

The BWT RP's innocent and naive, the whale only ever met LN and was very apologetic whilst running away as fast as they could and I believe the liner bumped into a nomad (he lives in the omicrons) and questioned why the navy where not killing it with. This may have been what your referring to in which case I apologize but our "people" have prejudices due to their current "home" they see a nomad in house space they ask why it isn't being killed.

Considering you barely do anything else than take care of your bases in Zeta and trade materials to there, I don't think it's anything that requires it's own ID yet, as you still play on the zoners neutrality roleplay.

The ZOE had much more extensive roleplay and activity, yet did not get it because there was too many factions based on the Zoner ID already, in fact it was such a strange move the ZOE pretty much died afterwards.

So really I don't know, this request seems premature more than anything for the moment.

Whilst firstly I would just like to point out that a lot of other factions focus mainly on trading as well, a task
which is pretty hard to avoid if you are attempting to build bases at all.

However, actually if you were to experience our RP we do generally do quite a lot of other things, most of my base is now supplied by external contracted people. The act of setting up trade routes for these people is something I would consider productive to the community. As well as this we jump trade, role-play, defend ourselves and attempt to run interesting RP events.

Again thanks for all good questions and feedback n stuffs.
I will be spending the entire day away from the house today
so I will answer anymore questions tonight.

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[Govedo13]

OSI and TAZ have been established for some time and it took that long establishment to finally get our own ID. I wouldn't see a problem with an OZ Zoner subfaction but considering how long it took for us to get ours, I can't support an OZ ID.

There is clear difference between technical capability to get the ID and the allowance by admins to get one, I remember RoS running on NovaPG ID in 4.85 because of the technical issues, such issues does not exist now.
The lack of common guideline made by admin team about player faction IDs is the real problem here.
I understand that most of the existing factions would protect their "own" "special" perks because otherwise they wont be own or special at all, but if we look on it only from pure in-game terms TAZ ID is not different then the generic zoner ID with Baffin as guard system. OSI ID on the other hand is better since they can run Caps on generic zoner ID.
The proposed ID solves 3 problems- first the alliances of the faction and the enemies of the faction, second the one faction per ID rule and third the activity of the owner in longer period because people with perks tent to be more active in order to keep them in the activity hell hole called Omicrons.
"You cannot have it because it took us 1-2 years to have it" is extremely wrong self serving and self protecting statement,restricting other people RP ideas in order to preserve the advantage that current official Zoner Factions have is wrong especially such kind of RP that contributes only to the server and cannot harm it in anyway.
When that guy started the OZ thing I never ever heart where is Zeta, when I saw the concept in JZ chat I was thinking that he is insane. If they manage to keep the activity levels required by the rules(extremely hard in long run) where is the problem of giving them their own ID?
AD said that the 12-16 slots for player faction IDs are there to be requested by player factions- and here we go player faction requesting it. Admin team must decide under what form they should be given with the clear guidelines that are the same for all factions- this is the only way if you does not want people to blame you for favouritism conspiracy and similar.
Carrot and stick approach- give and take- easy give ID and easy take ID is the way that should be done if you want people to be active. Check the activity of the server, compare it with 4.85 and you would eventually understand why.
Also good reality check would be to compare some older faction requests:
Mollys 35 pages of hate and trolling.
Reavers 56 pages.
go couple years back:
Wilde 18 pages.
LPI 3 pages.
Xenos 8 pages.
By the common sense with the shrinking playerbase new factions should have it more easier to get official, after all you as admins are aware of the process and the system- it means is should be able to be faster.
None is willing to wait couple of years for ID or SRP or any perk because it is game and game is meant to be played not to wait for the some older players to decide if you can play it on your way or not. Why not? Because the casual players just change the game.
my 2 c.

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€œ

Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)

[Daedric]

OSI ID on the other hand is better since they can run Caps on generic zoner ID.

Actually, we can't. As per our official faction approval - no capital ship can be part of OSI. That means, no capital ship can be flown under the OSI- tag (excepting gunboats).

I find it funny you say no one will wait years for a special perk or ID approval. OSI did such; took us over 2 years to get our ID approved.

Do try to have your facts in order before you speak.

There is nothing wrong with the OZ asking for a Player Faction ID along side their bid for official status. There is no rule saying they can't. There is no rule saying that you have to be official for X time before you can have one. In fact, there are no rules concerning them period.

I'm of the opinion that every official player faction that doesn't represent its NPC faction in full should have a Player Faction ID - leave the regular ID for unofficial groups and independent players. This way, player faction diplomacy and such can be set to their ID without affecting the regulars.

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[Reverend Del]

There's no set of rules for player faction ID's because we don't need them. We look at the way folks play and see if they need a new ID or not. If they do, then awesome! They will likely get one, provided their activity is up to par.

As for OSi using caps on the Zoner ID, nope for two reasons, one they haven;t requested a secondary ID, and even if they did the Zoner ID is not a generic ID so they can't have it as a secondary one.

Second reason, even if they could the secondary ID is not allowed to permit ship classes not available to the primary. Only actions. So Mollys can have the WG on an FL ID as it permits a larger ZOI and different actions. They could not have a secondary ID that permits battleships. Not allowed.

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Saint Del is considered a holy healer of diseases of children, but also as a protector of cattle.

[Psymple]

We look at the way folks play and see if they need a new ID or not. If they do, then awesome! They will likely get one, provided their activity is up to par.

I don't believe we need one, it would be very nice to have one.
Essentially as Daedric said: Due to OZ not representing the Zoner population as a whole.

Other than that let us hope our application and activity are up to par.

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I for now shall avoid the "application rules should be set in stone" debate.
Rules that are made for the sake of having rules are often made badly.

Player that requested it goes wtf.

Player requested see's that an admin team is a collection of individuals who may
disagree on issues, we cannot expect a unanimous decision on everything.

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[SummerMcLovin]

Player requested see's that an admin team is a collection of individuals who may
disagree on issues, we cannot expect a unanimous decision on everything.

Which is strangely fitting for a discussion on Zoner diplomacy etc.

OZ are a pretty good faction from what I've seen, even with the (inRP supposedly:P) impatience on their comm threads. If you are to get your own ID, I'd think the Zeta line needs to be more specific - possibly similar to TAZ's Pentabarf line.
If that gets sorted, good luck to you.

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Kingdom of Bretonia
Colonial Republic
Independent Miners Guild
Ex-Admin

[Hawk]

Just a reminder that this is a faction creation request. Comments here should be related to the proposed new faction. Any comments about other factions and how they use their ID's and equipment should be made in the feedback threads for those factions.

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