Discovery 4.87 Balance Discussion

[AshHill07]

I think Missiles will need a major buff in some areas if the amount we can fire is being reduced that drastically. Considering the fact ships have Countermeasures and 70 ammo for them, Missiles will become completely useless unless a lot of ships are using them on a single target.

You made the mistake last time of nerfing them in completely the wrong area in an attempt to reduce them insta killing fighters, please don't tell me your just going to repeat the mistakes from last time but in a different area.

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\\ CDR David Roberts \\ CAPT Steven Eversman \\ VADM Ash Hill // RDML Chris Murray // CDR Mick Connors //
\\ SFC| Patrol-7 \\ SFC| LNS-California \\ SFC| LNT-Century // SFC| LNS-San.Francisco // SFC| Patrol-5 //

[CommanderX]

I just come up with the idea.

Maybe it is not caps what need rebalancing, maybe it is snub-crafts what need it.

Capital ship fight, do it is duel or fleet combat do not last long, while fighter/bomber fights sometime take hours.

When capital ship arrive, you can get rid of it easily with right forces, if fighter/bomber arrive, you can never be sure do your fighters can do anything against it.

The worse is a fighter troll who fly around bases and have fun with NPC defences while no gunboat, cruiser or fighter can stop it.

My solution:
Increase fighter/bomber size a bit, decrease it is agility a bit, weaken it is shield regeneration rate and reduce number of nanobots and shield battery it have.
Increase it is guns damage with major buff.

It will make fighters more useful as escort, they would be able to get rid of enemy fighters and bombers much faster ( no annoying shield running ) and cover ally capital ship better.
With fighter and bomber survivability weakened, gunboat and cruiser escort will actually be able to hurt them as they will receive hull damage before they get out of escort fire range to recover their shield.
In exchange bombers will be able to do much more damage to capital ships, so if Dread or Cruiser does not have fighter/gunboat escort, they will be eaten by bombers far faster, while with fighter escort they will save them.

Long story short, weaken fighter,bomber survivability, increase their damage and usefulness, and cap/snub-craft balance problem will be gone.

It is much better solution then to mess up with capital ship guns while capital ship fights seems balanced to me ( outside of some OP and some underpowered ships ).

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[pitockm]

I just come up with the idea.

Maybe it is not caps what need rebalancing, maybe it is snub-crafts what need it.

Capital ship fight, do it is duel or fleet combat do not last long, while fighter/bomber fights sometime take hours.

When capital ship arrive, you can get rid of it easily with right forces, if fighter/bomber arrive, you can never be sure do your fighters can do anything against it.

The worse is a fighter troll who fly around bases and have fun with NPC defences while no gunboat, cruiser or fighter can stop it.

My solution:
Increase fighter/bomber size a bit, decrease it is agility a bit, weaken it is shield regeneration rate and reduce number of nanobots and shield battery it have.
Increase it is guns damage with major buff.

It will make fighters more useful as escort, they would be able to get rid of enemy fighters and bombers much faster ( no annoying shield running ) and cover ally capital ship better.
With fighter and bomber survivability weakened, gunboat and cruiser escort will actually be able to hurt them as they will receive hull damage before they get out of escort fire range to recover their shield.
In exchange bombers will be able to do much more damage to capital ships, so if Dread or Cruiser does not have fighter/gunboat escort, they will be eaten by bombers far faster, while with fighter escort they will save them.

Long story short, weaken fighter,bomber survivability, increase their damage and usefulness, and cap/snub-craft balance problem will be gone.

It is much better solution then to mess up with capital ship guns while capital ship fights seems balanced to me ( outside of some OP and some underpowered ships ).

hmmm...i guess this should only happen to bomber class. since VHF's should not be able to pew capships in 5 or 6 togather.

currently bombers are way better than vhf's SHF's and below. ofc.only in right hands. so this will add some role for VHF's to keep bombers off the road while they both are needed in a battle.

anyway i dont know if it has been looked up before.but it wont hurt thou

[Karst]

I know I'm very late to point this out, but better late than never.

I get the feeling that Rheinland got screwed over a bit with its civvy weapons.

- lowest efficiency
- highest energy / second
- lowest projectile speed by 100 m/s
- highly unpopular 3.03 refire rate

Seriously, 600 m/s, 3.03 refire is a terrible combination, and to add insult to injury they're also worse in all the other stats? Do not want.
Edit: Compare to Bretonia civvy which travel 150 m/s faster and thus sync with fast debs, use less energy and actually deal slightly higher dps as well! What gives?

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[Pavel]

It was said those aren't final stats and will be adjusted, if needed. Let's play 4.87 first and get experience in new rebalanced pvp environment before voicing opinions based on current pvp balance, Karst.

Personally I can't stand that waiting for new civilian 3.03 gun, which altogether with several new snubs, civilian gunboat, mining rebalance and storyline changes is a thing keeping my interest in that game on a high level.

And Nyx, Nyx and new RT which looks like Nyx...

[Zayne Carrick]

So... we'll have a plenty of Gladiator-like ships in .87.
Guess they'll have same powercore as Gladiator. But will they be able to use Tartarus pulse cannon? Currently not.

[sindroms]

What would happen if we separated Caps from Snubs, not allowing them to influence one another. Buff cap shields for them not to be damaged by fighter weapons and remove anti snub weapons from caps. Merge gunboats with bombers, making them into more of a support craft, unable to be too good against either caps or snubs.

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[Ursus]

Sigh... I do not know how gunboats themselves will change, but with guns like this they will become 100% useless, because those changes does not affect gunboat what pirate transport, they affect entire battlefield where gunboat cover ally fighter/bomber, when gunboat defend against snub-crafts or when they shot at enemy gunboat.

I dont know what has happened to solaris but if those are mostly unchanged then you will still have an anti-snub turret option. Right now there is littel reason to use anything except primaries, and no reason to use solaris. Hopefully primaries will take a position as generic damage-dealer, and leave solaris and cerbs as specialty weapons.

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Discovery 24/7 Negotiating Tactics:

[Duvelske]

Aerelm.. what did i tell you at the start of this post? with the cap ships and cruisers? Now I can QQ as the cm are on the bottom of the ship and the cerbs and such on top. so i cannot see 1 how many cm & cd i have left and 2 i need to scroll everytime now.. except if you have cloak then.

can you now please clarify why it was better this way?

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[djordje_petrovic]

Aerlem citat:

Post-Balance Changes:

Thruster speed on various ship classes have been altered:

Light transports (<3600 cargo) now have a top speed of 160
Heavy transports (>3600 cargo) now have a top speed of 150
Cruisers now have a top speed of 130

Raba and Salvager were left untouched due to their gunboat turret slots.

Next on the list: ----

Can luxury yachts as democritus and giesha than get even more faster speed impulse about 120 - 180 . In 4.86 yachts exclusivity was that they vere faster . Now democritus with 1500 cargo should be as fast as some tranport with 3000 cargo .