@"FluffReborn" I am proposing ways to handle cloaks according to the separated official/Indie IDs, which we did not had before. The perk system allows any official faction to earn something and tie it down to their ID, while indies are out of it. In this way any faction can earn and lose certain goodies. You need to observe this situation from above, then to see clearly that between both groups (indies/officials) the issues lie down with the first for many many years.
Indies abuse cloaks? Nerf cloaks to the indies....A certain official faction abuses cloaks? Remove it from their ID. - Simple as that and most of all - Fair to all those that do their best to RP cloaks properly.
(12-16-2015, 06:47 PM)FallenKnight Wrote: Nerf cloaks to the indies
Cloaks are nerfed far beyond it being the useful tool anymore. And I do not think that hurting 90% of players which did nothing on basis of these 10% of players which abuse items is a good idea. That way, we'd nerf trading (because of powertraders) for example.
(12-16-2015, 03:32 PM)Hidamari Wrote: if cloaks were SRP only theyd also be a damn sight more useful than they have to be when everyone and there pet salamander can have one.
Yes because every new player wants to need a year + on a server with months of back story and millions to drop just to try out the best parts of the mod, a feature that is advertised and rightly draws in new players. No one wants to play vanilla anymore, especially people that already spent years only playing vanilla before finding the server.
I still find it funny the amount of jealousy and butthurt players that don't use these things often have against those that do. I've never faced the harassment or 'abuse' people claim about cloaks, not even as a trader, which is where i'd expect to feel it if I did at all.
Ironically, if they got rid of snubcloaks, I wouldn't cry. They are an insta escape. Every other cloak has enough of a charge margine that if they get cloaked, they simply did it in time, or managed to evade an enemy long enough to succeed. I always thought the 2 second insta disappear for 2 minutes was a bit much. HOWEVER, that wasn't sooooo bad when fuel was not guaranateed to be at every base. There was a time when someone like me had to know where the MOX was sold, and RP'd a little to supply myself from POB's in areas where there was none sold by NPC bases. When cloaking ships were like this, we had even more economy just based around fuel. Why they killed that, I'll never understand, to me that was pure insanity. It was fun having an actual instrumental commodity that wasn't just used for occasional jumps (which are also now ever more rare) and base sieges (which are now extremely rare except core 1s). My point is, I had to think about if I even wanted to cloak in a situation, if i really NEEDED to, or could afford to. There were times i might have only got one full load of mox, and been systems away from more, maybe would have resorted to hfuel temporarily. These things to be considered made cloaking a bit more tedious and fair in application. Again, snub cloaks are pretty much excempt cuz they got 1/1s regardless. And don't get me wrong, i have a snub cloak on my fighter too, but only cuz i know its at least 1 insta escape (most likely) and will definitely get me back to the nearest neutral base to refuel.
So yeah snub battles probably are ridiculous now with cloaks and fuel being everywhere available to anyone with the sufficient rep/ID to dock. I understand that all too well the question 'what if you can't use it to escape?' Does that defeat the point? No not entirely. I actually rarely use my cloak to escape an active battle, more like evasion of a situation altogether. The odd time now I can sneak up on a transport passing by. Not so easy anymore now that we make a sound and have much shorter cloak times.
Unfortunately it seems like there is no perfect system for cloaks. We're playing a game, yet cloaks are based on real life, where if we could, we would certainly use such an advantage to hide or escape. In RL it would effect the outcomes of battles or events, but in a game it effects the entire point of playing. With the exception of the buff the snub cloak received (i guess they figure most people use them if they use any, but no wonder since they're so easy) the rest of the cloaks were already nerfed. I lost over half my possible cloak time. I gladly sacrificed armor for stealth, an option I don't really have anymore, again, something I feel they were INSANE to ditch, the new batteries for cargo thing just makes no sense to me. It was fine as it was, it was the admins that should have been telling players to suck it up and carry on and get better and harder, instead of promising to change them around to suit a minority over some bad apples that can still insta naive players if they want to. Its funny, the allure of cloaks being available to anyone is what drew me in, one of the things anyways, and i'm sure it does to others. They don't emphasise that few cloaks are good to escape, or give you much time to set up an ambush, cuz if you did that, the other player might cry and ragequite (after not spending nearly as much time or effort on their ship).
As to cloak ambushes, well, I still believe that if you RP before you appear, and you give sufficient time for the other person to respond or start moving (to avoid being a stationary easy target) then you're ok. At least they still let us talk cloaked! The haters wanted that taken from us too! If a cloaker RP's properly before an attack, regardless of being invisible, only an inexperienced player will have problems from an ambush. And that's how you get experience, sometimes learning the hard way. I hear cloak ships now myself, and even yesterday dropped RP against an Nomad indie, and they started moving around instead of sitting there chatting. I could still have dropped my surprise attack but they had their fair warning. On this server, you'll never get that perfect insta attack on someone because they've always considered it too much. If the rules are followed, people get the same RP before an attack no matter what, and the real skill becomes, who's able to pay attention enough, with everything you're doing while flying, to be aware of such an impending attack. That's the name of the game right there. Cloak haters and nerfers are either lazy or scared.
says one of the dumbest players around. You better than anyone know you are part of the "abusers" group that's making problems, you and i had many encounters with each other, and the ammount of times you had abused it infront of me says it all, so please take your crap elsewhere, keeping them as they are is not an option.
By the way, regarding this.
Quote: because every new player wants to need a year + on a server with months of back story and millions to drop just to try out the best parts of the mod
that is their choice, if they wanna stay that long or not, not yours, so again, keep that to yourself.
Its their choice to stick it out over a 'maybe' that they'll even like the thing, over that long a time and heavy an investment? Glad you're not running this game, very glad.
As to my abuses? When, where? Why didn't you come to me? Did you file sanctions? If you did and no rule was broken, its not actually an abuse, just so you know. And this was on my Argo char? I don't think you can count the whole jumphole thing since i had no way of knowing what other people see, i only see what I see and my display showed everything working normally. So if I'm so stupid my success must be attributed to luck. All I hear is jealousy dude. You talk a lot of talk but in the end it just sound like you lost. Please, go on if you think I broke any rules or 'abused' my cloak. I won't complain about trial by forum. All my experiences I consent to have discussed, regardless of accusation. This is exactly the type of thing that needs to be discussed out in the open finally.
OH, and now i recognize you, Nigel Gibson char. Ok, so when was the last time we fought? It was on Argo? I'll recheck my screens, but I don't remember fighting any Xenos in any other ship in a long time, and I don't think I ever used my cloak to escape. If i was hovering near the periphery of the battle and left when everyone died, not the same thing, too bad so sad. In fact I think you were part of a gank squad that instantly blew to me to bits back in the summer near Buffalo, with about 5 seconds to respond...yet i didn't complain! Anyways, considering I've never got a kill against your character, I'm pretty sure you have no reason to complain about me. Ironically the last xeno i fought 1v1 wound up using their snub cloak to escape, later told me they just needed a 2 min afk break, and acted like i was a saint for not killing them afterwards when they were exposed. I left thinking they escaped, came back noticed they were just sitting there. No i didnt' kill them, and wondered why one would cloak in a battle and act like I'm the one that left. If you cloak in battle (snub) you either plan to attack cloaked or are escaping. Either way I don't hang around afterwards. I also know when to quit, so if 5 xenos massacre a group of salvagers and I slip out during the confusion, you'll get no tears from me.
And the price of Cloak Disruptors does not justify buying it, as what are the chances that on that specific ship(you have the disruptor on) you will encounter a cloaker and not on your snub.
and as a player who flied mostly snubs only, Cloaks are a cheap, easy way to just gtfo from an interaction without a bother.
And I highly disagree that cloaks are nerfed, they are still an easy way ticket to bother off from an interaction.
And don't get me started on those battleships that drop /1, /2 and uncloak above you and completely destroy you without ANY retaliation.
Cloaks should be SRP only because Cloaks are abused so easily it's boggling to imagine how the frick the Staff thought it was a good idea to even implement it to public use.
So yes, do nerf the cloaks for indies by adding:
-Powercore consumption(Just like how you cruise)
-Increased time to cloak in, instead of 3 seconds of whatever it is, make it five times fold or at least longer than 10 seconds.
(12-16-2015, 06:58 PM)FluffReborn Wrote: Cloaks are nerfed far beyond it being the useful tool anymore.
I find the fuel replacement with Battery as a better approach. Also from BB point of view - cloak is same just like when it was with the fuel. A 15min invisibility with BB is more than enough, considering 1min charge and slow movement of the ship. I don't care how abusers use cloak but for me - If I have to cloak then I am out of the battle and wont return - my own rule. After all I carry tag on my name, I need to play well to represent the faction - which leads us back to "player responsibility issues" which lacks in those 10% of abusers you mention - most of which are indies bound by no rules existent.
@Traxit, SRP is time consuming and requires a lot of proper RP interactions and story in order to even be legit to submit your post - it is difficult even for veteran RPs to get something. Disco needs new players not book authors to write tons of pages to get a cloak after few months. New players want to dive in the battle instantly and have fun - that is why so many players are using caps in first place but its another story. Faction Perks per ID is the best way to handle cloaks cuz then you wont see abusers but only players responsible of their actions.
(12-16-2015, 07:24 PM)FallenKnight Wrote: @Traxit, SRP is time consuming and requires a lot of proper RP interactions and story in order to even be legit to submit your post - it is difficult even for veteran RPs to get something. Disco needs new players not book authors to write tons of pages to get a cloak after few months. New players want to dive in the battle instantly and have fun - that is why so many players are using caps in first place but its another story. Faction Perks per ID is the best way to handle cloaks cuz then you wont see abusers but only players responsible of their actions.
You're right, I took SRP as a "I know how to rp, understand and follow server rules so I have access to this op thing and that".
My mistake, I agree on your Faction Perk concept and would prefer that.
(12-16-2015, 07:01 PM)TheUnforgiven Wrote: Its their choice to stick it out over a 'maybe' that they'll even like the thing, over that long a time and heavy an investment? Glad you're not running this game, very glad.
As to my abuses? When, where? Why didn't you come to me? Did you file sanctions? If you did and no rule was broken, its not actually an abuse, just so you know. And this was on my Argo char? I don't think you can count the whole jumphole thing since i had no way of knowing what other people see, i only see what I see and my display showed everything working normally. So if I'm so stupid my success must be attributed to luck. All I hear is jealousy dude. You talk a lot of talk but in the end it just sound like you lost. Please, go on if you think I broke any rules or 'abused' my cloak. I won't complain about trial by forum. All my experiences I consent to have discussed, regardless of accusation. This is exactly the type of thing that needs to be discussed out in the open finally.
OH, and now i recognize you, Nigel Gibson char. Ok, so when was the last time we fought? It was on Argo? I'll recheck my screens, but I don't remember fighting any Xenos in any other ship in a long time, and I don't think I ever used my cloak to escape. If i was hovering near the periphery of the battle and left when everyone died, not the same thing, too bad so sad. In fact I think you were part of a gank squad that instantly blew to me to bits back in the summer near Buffalo, with about 5 seconds to respond...yet i didn't complain! Anyways, considering I've never got a kill against your character, I'm pretty sure you have no reason to complain about me. Ironically the last xeno i fought 1v1 wound up using their snub cloak to escape, later told me they just needed a 2 min afk break, and acted like i was a saint for not killing them afterwards when they were exposed. I left thinking they escaped, came back noticed they were just sitting there. No i didnt' kill them, and wondered why one would cloak in a battle and act like I'm the one that left. If you cloak in battle (snub) you either plan to attack cloaked or are escaping. Either way I don't hang around afterwards. I also know when to quit, so if 5 xenos massacre a group of salvagers and I slip out during the confusion, you'll get no tears from me.
I'm glad too, it's troublesome to run a place with many not-so-smart people (so i don't use offensive words), truth being said.
i would totally love to state the places and ship but really, this isn't the place for it. no need to deny the fact that you did, cause you did. Now let's stay on topic instead of telling each other life stories of the past.
Weak dude, really weak. All you have is 'you're stupid', how old are you? This might explain some. You have nothing but butthurt to go on. I'm pretty sure discussing the possible abuses of cloaks is still on topic with how and why they might be adjusted. Sorry I sank a billion+ credits into my ship and you didn't get me with your UAU8 bomber and can't handle it. Point fingers all you like, you should see how you look with no real data to bring to the table, and 'you're stupid' as your only argument. Especially if its not about rules infractions, discussion of such things hurts how?
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