Jumphole Overhaul

[Karlotta]

Then they should suggest jump hole changes they think have a higher likelihood of getting accepted by the devs.

If people are able to complain about long distance, buffer systems, and ask for activity hubs (as many do), they should be able to suggest solutions, or at least back them up.

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[Lythrilux]

If it was that easy, threads like this would have become obsolete a long time ago.

There are too many other factors to consider when making changes like these. I pretty much don't agree with all of them, but that's just me I guess.

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[Apollon]

Removing systems has a lot of deciding factors and consequences; it would have an impact on the storyline, economy, and general activity. The devs would have to draw a plan as to where the solars, objects, and zones (Planets, station, mining zones, jump hole/gate connections, iconic objects) would go and that would impact the story, consulting with regional leaders and whatnot. It takes a lot of time and effort and so it can't be done all at once. The safer and more appropriate solution would be removing systems and revamping regions step by step- which is the current policy. Which has been demonstrated by the recent removal of Omega-9.

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[Karlotta]

@Lyth

The other factors are:

-Some systems will become more empty. Unlike what people used to think, that's actually good because there's no other way to increase player interactions without destroying content.

-Some trade routes may become buffed. Unlike what people used to think, that's good because it will concentrate activity along that route and make juicy targets of pirates and law enforcement/enemies.

-Other trade routes will be removed or made unattractive. That's good because people will take the other buffed routes instead, concentrating activity to them even more. If one route really becomes "too active", it can always be adjusted AFTER that happened. There is in fact no need to anticipate anything concerning trade pricing before making the jh changes. And if people think that it is necessary to anticipate concrete problems, they should say these concrete problems here, and not go "oh there could be problems, someone else needs to think about them and I won't".

What am I missing?

Changing jump holes requires no FLHook, no system re-design of lanes or gates, no lore changes, no new infocards. All it requires is to change some connections and remove or add a few holes. If one ore more of the JH changes requires any of that, say it here so it can be amended, instead of just theorizing about potential problems and blocking any kind of progress.

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[Karlotta]

Removing systems has a lot of deciding factors and consequences; it would have an impact on the storyline, economy, and general activity. The devs would have to draw a plan as to where the solars, objects, and zones (Planets, station, mining zones, jump hole/gate connections, iconic objects) would go and that would impact the story, consulting with regional leaders and whatnot. It takes a lot of time and effort and so it can't be done all at once. The safer and more appropriate solution would be removing systems and revamping regions step by step- which is the current policy. Which has been demonstrated by the recent removal of Omega-9.

I'm not removing ANY systems.

And no, you wouldnt have to do ANY of that when adding and removing jumpholes. Leaders can report any undesired problems right here, I would be very happy if they did. They can also say where they would like the jump hole to be in "their" system.

Please also read the answer to Lyth.

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[Durandal]

Would be nice if people commented or suggested jump hole connections more, especially devs and faction-savvy people.

I'm 110% certain you're going to write off what I have to say here because of who I am, but the reason we are not commenting is because nearly all systems are linked the way they are currently for an actual reason, not because we're dumb and don't understand how the game works or something.

Yes, obviously having more chokepoints is better for interaction, but to be quite frank we inherited a massive shitshow of systems in the form of 4.87, and the sheer volume of things that were broken simply could not be undone without destroying tons of established lore and/or having people come at us with flaming pitchforks. I don't agree with everything on the system map currently, for example the Alaska link should absolutely go to Minor and not Sigma, and Cayman and Omicron Omega are completely useless systems which only serve as another interaction avoiding bypass.

In short, almost nothing you're proposing can be done because of established lore, since [sarcasm]unfortunately for all of us[/sarcasm] this is a roleplaying server, and we can't just start chopping dozens of links which have formed the cornerstone of years of writing.

I also find it incredibly ironic how many people are lobbying for the return of the 41-Theta connection while at the same time screaming about "MORE CHOKEPOINTS" when returning that one bypasses one of the biggest ones in the game.

Anyway if you'd like some specific examples I could type ones up for each region, but I suspect you're probably not all that interested in the why behind things, because if it ain't done your way, then, y'know, it's wrong.

[Thyrzul]

One of the main issues with this proposal is that there are inherent flaws in the entrety of it. Intra-system distances are not addressed, there are no proposals for intra-system locations for the new jumpholes, no regard to what possible economy balance may be required not to screw up things even more, without these it's just - no offense - half-assed.

On the other hand, as I said before, the general concept of mainstreaming traffic into tighter areas and through bottlenecks already exists. There are single most efficient trade routes between the houses including, but not limited to:

● Omega-3 and Omega-7,
● Sigma-13,
● Tau-29 and Tau-31,
● Tau-23 and Tau-31,
● Rishiri,

there are also prioritised pathways between Liberty and the other three Sirian houses for various reasons, namely:

● Cortez over Magellan because of the GRN's advance and one less lane in Manchester,
● Hudson over Bering because of the destroyed Hamburg gate and the takeover of the freeport,
● Kepler over Galileo because of one less lane and Ames, (though I wouldn't mind something interesting in Galileo)

and then there are the bottlenecks including, but not limited to:

● California, Colorado, Texas,
● Manchester, Cambridge, Leeds, (though the latter is a bit of a special case)
● Kyushu, Hokkaido, Honshu, Shikoku,
● Hamburg, Frankfurt, Stuttgart,
● Languedoc, Dauphine, Lyonnais, Lorraine,

and by extension, the capital systems the above are connected to, in case they are and there are no viable shortcuts around them:

● New London,
● New Tokyo,
● New Berlin.

What I agree about is that Gallia needs a bit of a restructuring to resemble the other houses in regards to both intra-house and inter-house connections, which is the core of my ancient proposal.

But in order to remain constructive, possibly with a proposal unrelated to Gallia and matching the OP's proposal in quality and detail:
Redo the Ontario-Colorado jumphole connection so New York can join the rest in the above list. How it's done, complete removal, distance increase, restriction to snubs only, I don't care, and given the depth of your proposal, you don't seem to care either.

Mind, this was written since Lyth's post with a few occasional breaks, so it does not address stuff past his post, but after a quick glance at them they seem to have similar message as mine, although with different emphasis on things.

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[SnakThree]

I find the argument "Hard to change established lore" when it is being changed and progressed further beyond what we had in each previous version. Imagine that, anomaly disappears. Nothing hard to change in lore, that the connection is now gone. After all, if you can go through with trial of merging LWB into multiple faction, you could go on a trial to change JH connection or two. Like, we really need Ontario-Colorado connection to no be shortcut for trade ships but offer unlawfuls easy passage at the same time.

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[Karlotta]

I'm 110% certain you're going to write off what I have to say here because of who I am, but the reason we are not commenting is because nearly all systems are linked the way they are currently for an actual reason, not because we're dumb and don't understand how the game works or something.

...

I don't agree with everything on the system map currently, for example the Alaska link should absolutely go to Minor and not Sigma, and Cayman and Omicron Omega are completely useless systems which only serve as another interaction avoiding bypass.

I don't write off anything because of who people are, I hardly know you at all and don't know why I would write off anything "because of who you are".

I'm glad you agree that choke points are good for interaction.

I'm glad you agree that Minor-Alaska would be a good think.

I'm glad you agree that Cayman and Omicron Omega are useless.

Maybe you can also agree that severing some jump hole connections to isolate them without cutting them off completely is an easy thing to do that doesnt require much work and doesnt remove content.

Yes, obviously having more chokepoints is better for interaction, but to be quite frank we inherited a massive ***** of systems in the form of 4.87, and the sheer volume of things that were broken simply could not be undone without destroying tons of established lore and/or having people come at us with flaming pitchforks.

I know that many faction leaders are possessive and selfish, and put their own pet projects at the center of everything and totally disregard the bigger picture of what that does to the server and community. I've experienced that a lot myself. Like... really... a lot.

But maybe they left or realized what this does to the server population by now. If they don't there's still the possibility of going over them. I find moving some jump holes without taking any system, gear, or NPC faction away a very small "slight" towards them in comparison.

In short, almost nothing you're proposing can be done because of established lore, since [sarcasm]unfortunately for all of us[/sarcasm] this is a roleplaying server, and we can't just start chopping dozens of links which have formed the cornerstone of years of

I also find it incredibly ironic how many people are lobbying for the return of the 41-Theta connection while at the same time screaming about "MORE CHOKEPOINTS" when returning that one bypasses one of the biggest ones in the game.

I'm glad you pointed out that there was a problem with the o41-theta link, and would be even happier if you pointed out what choke point it was circumventing. Gamma? I did that because as far as I know infocards describe Gamma as being somewhat of a "secret", so it seemed oorp to make it a major traveling route. But I'm open for counter-arguments.

Anyway if you'd like some specific examples I could type ones up for each region, but I suspect you're probably not all that interested in the why behind things, because if it ain't done your way, then, y'know, it's wrong.

Specific examples is EXACTLY what I'm asking for.

And your last sentence as well as the tone of your post suggest you're writing it off because of who I am.

I also wish we could approach this in a calmer and more rational manner.

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[Karlotta]

I find the argument "Hard to change established lore" when it is being changed and progressed further beyond what we had in each previous version. Imagine that, anomaly disappears. Nothing hard to change in lore, that the connection is now gone. After all, if you can go through with trial of merging LWB into multiple faction, you could go on a trial to change JH connection or two. Like, we really need Ontario-Colorado connection to no be shortcut for trade ships but offer unlawfuls easy passage at the same time.

I agree that lore can very easily be "altered" without undoing anything of the past.

Especially JUMP HOLES, which are MEANT to be UNSTABLE. By LORE.

I'm also happy that you finally found it within your heart to say that you agree with me about the Ontario-Colorado link, SnakThree. Thank you

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