liberty police, incompetent

[Skorak]

That seems to be an opinion more than a fact.

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[Grumblesaur]

That seems to be an opinion more than a fact.

Ah, I bet you're all kinds of fun at parties.

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A way a lone a last a loved a long the riverrun, past Eve and Adam's, from swerve of shore to bend of bay,
brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs.

[SnakThree]

Reason why this thread is created is that @Grumblesaur loves to complain about Liberty. Ironic enough he was part of faction who wanted to transport Black Market Munitions legally in Liberty as Ageira faction despite Ageira lore stating that they are doing everything to stop that. And now complains that LPI is interacting with people, be it known hostiles or regular civilians. There is absolutely no way this person will be happy about anything unless it is his or her own thing.

I'm quite pleased to see you're still angry about /DM/, and I ought remind you that the only reason you didn't like it is because it contradicted your own vision for Ageira. Don't be a hypocrite, Snak3.

Furthermore, Black Market Munitions were sold on the base at the time, so that implies that Ageira had a niche to be operating in there.

Anyway, that was literally years ago. It's obvious that you've never gotten over it.

I didn't like your faction because it was going against lore of Ageira curbing down illegal munitions. There no hypocrisy there.

Why do you refuse to answer to the post highlighting your inability to choose one point of view. Do you want Liberty Lawfuls to interact with players or not? Because you already made remarks how LPI is bad for interacting with civilians and then were riled up at Saronsem for saying to stay away from Liberty if you don't like being there. It's like you are just trying to rile up people by being bitter vet unhappy with either direction.

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[Charo]

snak3 still upset that /DM/ didn't want to merge with Ageira~ confirmed

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[Grumblesaur]

Because I don't see my views as contradictory -- I see the behaviors of lawful factions to be largely avoidant of challenge and difficulty. Slapping down fines and player base racketeering are practices that give a large, powerful faction with a veteran playerbase (and on top of that, capital ships and TLAGSNET) an enormous amount of in-game and out-of-game power. It diminishes the ability of indie players to enjoy space that overlaps lawful ZoIs, because now player bases cost extra money on top of their usual maintenance. Licenses and fees make trading more annoying, and require new and regular players alike to get out of the game and go on the forum.

Hell, with the bounty boards being so extensive as they are, it diminishes the need for hunting after pirates and terrorists. This is actually a discussion we've had internally with MdG. We could put one up, but a lot of people are already apprehensive about encountering us, and we'd only take those encounters away from ourselves if we farmed them out to other players.

The forum is the veterans' playground, where we like to sit around and wage power politics and trade stories and comms for in-game toys and rights. It's where faction rights are borne and carried out.

It's where the realism excuse is often touted. This is how police are in real life, this is how the Navy are. These excuses allow the corruption of real life to seep into the game, and into the mindsets of the players, not just the characters. The explanation for "reasonable" is no longer about one's fellow player, but about what's the most realistic outcome that does not explicitly flout the rules.

Liberty is not solely guilty of this, but they are the most visible, long-running, and lore-entrenched agglomeration of player factions in the game, and also where all the impressionable new players start out.

All in all, I have deep concerns about the precedent for future development of this game, when the "lessons" we teach are "make everything done by outsiders a point of litigation".

Furthermore, Discovery is a roleplaying game, and I personally view such games as an opportunity to struggle in novel ways. I have been trying to improve my PVP skills (I'm an average fighter jockey at best), and I have been trying to steer my roleplay away from the usual "snarky jerk in a VHF who cracks wise all the time". I enjoy the challenge of playing in a faction beset by many enemies all around, and exploring the paranoia that comes thence.

But it bothers me that houses get an opportunity to struggle, and have to fight with the unlawful forces within their domain, but don't engage with that struggle, or don't get to. The story team often makes arguments that superior house fleets win battles against unlawful as a rule, and these houses gain territory and power for no other reason than they played a faction that was already powerful.

The expanded territory only gives the big, powerful house more latitude. It gives the players of that house more to do, while taking away from other, usually smaller, factions.

And if it's not territory, it's a new ship, or a new commodity, or a new station. But then even with all those perks, we still have these great and powerful factions on the forums, writing stories to start wars (see Imperial vs Federal Rheinland with Bretonia) for some strange ideological gain. We see new laws written to outlaw or restrict some commodity or weapon or ship. New lore written (and often suggested or submitted by the players of the factions) which invalidates or prevents some alternate interpretation of a faction, or which privileges one player branch of an NPC faction over another.

It is a long cycle, repeated many times. Again, Liberty is not the only perpetrator here, but the most prominent.

So while all those fines and ship restrictions may be realistic roleplay or lore-supported, while we might be able to do them, should we?

In a 3v1 fighter encounter, it's good tactics for the 3 to go all in. But in the interests of fairness, many groups will hold back, and duel the solo pilot.

That's what it all comes down to, for me -- balancing lore-friendliness with fairness. And I'm of the mind to lean towards fairness and making sure every NPC faction has enough to do without needing to lobby on the forums to get to enjoy the game, and especially not to be at the mercy of those who do.

---

A way a lone a last a loved a long the riverrun, past Eve and Adam's, from swerve of shore to bend of bay,
brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs.

[Saronsen]

tl;dr

[SnakThree]

Because I don't see my views as contradictory -- I see the behaviors of lawful factions to be largely avoidant of challenge and difficulty. Slapping down fines and player base racketeering are practices that give a large, powerful faction with a veteran playerbase (and on top of that, capital ships and TLAGSNET) an enormous amount of in-game and out-of-game power. It diminishes the ability of indie players to enjoy space that overlaps lawful ZoIs, because now player bases cost extra money on top of their usual maintenance. Licenses and fees make trading more annoying, and require new and regular players alike to get out of the game and go on the forum.

Hell, with the bounty boards being so extensive as they are, it diminishes the need for hunting after pirates and terrorists. This is actually a discussion we've had internally with MdG. We could put one up, but a lot of people are already apprehensive about encountering us, and we'd only take those encounters away from ourselves if we farmed them out to other players.

The forum is the veterans' playground, where we like to sit around and wage power politics and trade stories and comms for in-game toys and rights. It's where faction rights are borne and carried out.

It's where the realism excuse is often touted. This is how police are in real life, this is how the Navy are. These excuses allow the corruption of real life to seep into the game, and into the mindsets of the players, not just the characters. The explanation for "reasonable" is no longer about one's fellow player, but about what's the most realistic outcome that does not explicitly flout the rules.

Liberty is not solely guilty of this, but they are the most visible, long-running, and lore-entrenched agglomeration of player factions in the game, and also where all the impressionable new players start out.

All in all, I have deep concerns about the precedent for future development of this game, when the "lessons" we teach are "make everything done by outsiders a point of litigation".

Furthermore, Discovery is a roleplaying game, and I personally view such games as an opportunity to struggle in novel ways. I have been trying to improve my PVP skills (I'm an average fighter jockey at best), and I have been trying to steer my roleplay away from the usual "snarky jerk in a VHF who cracks wise all the time". I enjoy the challenge of playing in a faction beset by many enemies all around, and exploring the paranoia that comes thence.

But it bothers me that houses get an opportunity to struggle, and have to fight with the unlawful forces within their domain, but don't engage with that struggle, or don't get to. The story team often makes arguments that superior house fleets win battles against unlawful as a rule, and these houses gain territory and power for no other reason than they played a faction that was already powerful.

The expanded territory only gives the big, powerful house more latitude. It gives the players of that house more to do, while taking away from other, usually smaller, factions.

And if it's not territory, it's a new ship, or a new commodity, or a new station. But then even with all those perks, we still have these great and powerful factions on the forums, writing stories to start wars (see Imperial vs Federal Rheinland with Bretonia) for some strange ideological gain. We see new laws written to outlaw or restrict some commodity or weapon or ship. New lore written (and often suggested or submitted by the players of the factions) which invalidates or prevents some alternate interpretation of a faction, or which privileges one player branch of an NPC faction over another.

It is a long cycle, repeated many times. Again, Liberty is not the only perpetrator here, but the most prominent.

So while all those fines and ship restrictions may be realistic roleplay or lore-supported, while we might be able to do them, should we?

In a 3v1 fighter encounter, it's good tactics for the 3 to go all in. But in the interests of fairness, many groups will hold back, and duel the solo pilot.

That's what it all comes down to, for me -- balancing lore-friendliness with fairness. And I'm of the mind to lean towards fairness and making sure every NPC faction has enough to do without needing to lobby on the forums to get to enjoy the game, and especially not to be at the mercy of those who do.

Grumblesaur: Oh no. Governments are bullies
Grumblesaur: Also, let me try bully LPI for roleplaying with civilians or criminals.

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[Grumblesaur]

You asked. Next time don't.

---

A way a lone a last a loved a long the riverrun, past Eve and Adam's, from swerve of shore to bend of bay,
brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs.

[SnakThree]

You asked. Next time don't.

Next time don't try to bully faction for interacting with civilians. And then bully them for interacting with criminals.

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[t0l]

I'm not even leading it nor are you playing.

skorak gimmie kiss

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