Deterrence OF application

[Toaster]

No one is going to be convinced of who is right or wrong by flinging accusations back and forth.

Just play the game and try to provide fun and fair interactions for all the people you encounter. Keep everyone's enjoyment in mind - not just your own or that of your friends. If you cannot or will not do that, I'd suggest not to play at all.

This obviously applies to everyone and is not directed solely at DTR.

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Olivia Sable

[Lusitano]

so far all the times i saw DTR members all went very good. they know who is their enemy and who is their friend, don't behave like pure rats when a transport pass. and like some already said ... it is so cool to see gankers complain of being ganked and very low quality RP factions complain about the supose lack of quality of others RP by the way, last time my transport was attacked it was by a gunboat and a snub, i managed to escape but even if i lost, nobody was going to see me here crying fr a fair fight, and all because it is the way it is and should be. life isn't fair so isn't pvp here, and also ...

[James Greed]

Does "incoming torpedo" count as a warning

I'm not sure if this is a meme that I have missed or what. But that sounds like what the problem is here. Too much posturing and assumptions. I know it's hard for some people here, but just talk to people.

That happened to be humor. I had no clue about any event, nor was I told. I saw some man in a cruiser getting piled, so I tried to alleviate pressure by pestering caps, hoping it'll turn into something enjoyable. Guess I was naive.



Right, let me chime in with some actual pseudo-seriousness.

.....causing a public drama for all to see.

Or would you prefer it to be sent in a hermetically sealed container? Ought to make sure the OF creation thread remains pristine. You know, the place that helps out the badmins to see what you lot are up to. If you don't mind, I'll look past that PR paragraph.

I think some people are being needlessly but very strongly emotional for something that can be resolved logically and quite easily.

Starting to resemble the usual feedback threads. I'm always right, done nothing wrong, here's a soyjak. Gotcha.

As a general point, I continue to be baffled by a few arguments being brought to our attention - that we use our numbers to our advantage.

1) If you see that the enemy have clearly numerological advantage - why would you attack with the certainty and expectation that your enemy would not use that? How is that RP-sound? We are all trying to RP in here right?

Classic argument of "I RP with guns." Let me flip that around on you then. Why hug capitals and run away at the slightest opposition? Aren't you a corsair? How is that RP-sound? We are all trying to RP in here right?

Hope you can see how that one sounds now. I admit, it is problematic to balance such a fight. That however requires you to try balancing it, and not just say "we did it" while solaris cruisers rain down on lone bombers/snubs.

2) Why do you expect us to always limit our numbers but not yourselves? We've done so in the past - give the enemy a fair fight which nets the enemy kills, until said enemies then log more people and now we are suddenly at a huge disadvantage. Why would we constantly limit ourselves tactically? I've seen plenty of times when people have attacked us without any problem while having more ships than we do.

There is some merit in this. The numbers wouldn't be that much of a problem, save for the fact that most of the ships were caps. Cruising up and trying for cheap shots on a fleeing bomber who is already shot at by 2-3 snubs/bombers. Now that's some gameplay.

3) Why are you only accounting for numbers and not accounting for player skill which is actually the most important factor when determining battle fairness? I've seen people boast freely that they can take on 4-5 DTRs single-handedly without a problem. In fact, I've also seen plenty of times people take on many of us and win due to combat inexperience. I am not sure why this is never brought up in this conversation.

I agree with this point, however this also doesn't justify throwing a bunch of cruisers at ships you perceive to be better. A bit of a catch 22.

4) Why are you expecting from DTR to be constantly a match-making service for you? It's a real battle, and battle is often chaotic.

My real battle in the 2003 arcade space shooter game freelancer. Plenty factions are at least trying to be a dreadful match-making service.

I am not even going to talk about tech advantage because that will get even murkier but no one seems to mention that.

Please enlighten me about that one. I'm sure it'll be a knee slapper.


tldr

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Greedback

[Wesker]

Man even at such a low playercount discovery never fails to be discovery.

Just let them do their thing.

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[Kauket]

@Ravenna Nagash

There is nothing emotional with witnessing DTR going to gangbang some random dude in a BS who stands 0 chance AT ALL, even with help. You're going to harm the playerbase by demotivating people if you keep it up. That is a fact. Tone it down.

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1) RP sense?
How can the Corsairs afford to waste so much fuel on fighters? Corsairs are meant to be formidable fighter pilots. Why are they running? Why are they dishonoring Corsair values? Why would they prefer capital

ships with resource issues? You can't compare RP to gameplay, not entirely. God I wish a Nomad could roll a group of people over without effort or backup.

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2) I've always limited numbers where I can and I certainly not have sent 12 people onto 2 nor 5. And balancing around capital gameplay is always difficult. How the FUCK are you supposed to balance VERY HEAVY FIGHTERS against a group of BATTLESHIPS? Are you insane? In both situations, DTR were overkilling. And there was no large group either, both fights were just stragglers logging in. It is hard to determine skill measure when people are sometimes incognito. Yes, sometimes, you will need 2 people on 1. There are plenty of people who can kill 2 people alone, I know Wesker sure as hell can.

I don't know what K'Hara does, nor care, you can piss on them for all I care, but you're taking it way too far by going grug smash on random players.

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3) I'm not an ace, nor was the guy with me in the first fight, I can barely hit with my stiff hands as is. First fight, I was flying a very large bomber, anyone can hit it which they did pretty much dry me when I had to leave to attend to an oven overcooking. Here you go again, this is another problem of assumptions. If you actually read my reply you would have noticed I said I didn't mind if you had like 3-4 extra snubs on. The problem was that you were going overkill. You were sending almost every combat class in the game after people.

Ace or not. 3-4 VHFs cannot touch a group of 8+ caps...

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4) It isn't a match making game, but have you ever considered any sort of sportsmanship? "real battle" ... It's a game. This isn't a war, what are you on about. Other players, so far I've witnessed this year, can offer relief and pull some people off.

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We can't magically change our entire organization, fleet composition, and plans to accommodate your game-play in an instant.

Calling bollocks on this because your guys deliberately logged onto capital ships during the 2nd fight was about to kick off, when they could have logged VHFs. No one stopped them either. Inexcusable behaviour. You could have still balanced it regardless, because your event wouldn't have been stopped if you died in Delta. You are not dead in Major.

"Our gameplay" is also your gameplay. If you don't like other players existing, you may as well just host your own server and pve for the rest of eternity.

You can't have alleged constant issues with us for months, never raise them to me and expect some kind of action really. It doesn't work that way unfortunately, but I am very eager to catch up with you and dissect the issues and work on them together.

I have had them for ages and some people know I have been a bit vocal in other chats. I don't care. What I care about is what you do now in the present and in the future. What has happened, has happened - you can't change what has been done. Show that you're willing to be a bit more humble. You hate K'Hara so much, so why do you aspire to be like them?

Plenty of DTR players has since moved on from only DTR and are playing other factions - some in Liberty, some in Gallia, some have even created their own factions themselves. They are free to do so. I do not overlord over every DTR member and people are free to choose what and how they want to play the game.

When I mean that people should try out different things, I meant different entirely, not just move with the same friend group. Fight against your friends from time to time. You can tell them to log off, but you can't force them to log whatever side.


Lastly. No one knows you had an event in the first fight. And it absolutely does not excuse what you did in Xi when you had FULL control of what to bring or do.

Repeating myself for multiple times now, people are not psychic, you need to inform them if you want to pass along to an event. I didn't know. Nor did the others. Why do you expect the server to conform to you? Random things happen all the time. It is entirely unreasonable for you to assume that people know what you want to do. The only thing I saw in my perspective was large group of Corsairs and some Core cruiser getting gangpiled by it all lmao.

I do not care for these mental gymnastics of "what aboutisms" and "im never wrong" attitudes. I don't care. What I care about, is how you're treating people and willingness to do something new so that the game can be fun. And it is not looking good. Because throwing capital ships and fighters onto lone players isn't fun.

I gave the DTR people the benefit of the doubt because some people can have bad days, and can change over time. Confronting people in Disco tends to drive them into being gymnasts (like these useless feedback threads) and nothing changes. Sometimes people need quiet to reflect or distance to realise things. That's why I didn't mention anything publicly, because that is unnecessary drama. It achieves nothing. And it seems like, once more, that nothing will be achieved here either. Maybe something will happen, who knows.

Oh, and for reference, I barely interact with DTR as is on the server. So, no, I do not make these "hunting parties" that some of you like to assume. I don't log a lot as is, but when or if I do, I'd rather log to rp or I'm being called to help someone, or I see something unusual happening to check it out.


I'm not amused in the slightest witnessing randoms get piled like that. I'm speaking up about it because no one else will.

[Greylock]

Disclaimer: I have not and likely will not engage in PvP with/against your group; this is purely my opinion as a concerned third party.

1) If you see that the enemy have clearly numerological advantage - why would you attack with the certainty and expectation that your enemy would not use that? How is that RP-sound? We are all trying to RP in here right?

From an RP standpoint, the snubs are far too fast for capital ship turrets. This is even stated in the campaign during the attack on Willard. Well, specifically it was the gunboats that were too fast, but you get the point.

2) Why do you expect us to always limit our numbers but not yourselves? We've done so in the past - give the enemy a fair fight which nets the enemy kills, until said enemies then log more people and now we are suddenly at a huge disadvantage. Why would we constantly limit ourselves tactically? I've seen plenty of times when people have attacked us without any problem while having more ships than we do.

wE gOt GaNkEd OnCe sO wE wIlL gAnK eVeRyOnE eLsE

3) Why are you only accounting for numbers and not accounting for player skill which is actually the most important factor when determining battle fairness? I've seen people boast freely that they can take on 4-5 DTRs single-handedly without a problem. In fact, I've also seen plenty of times people take on many of us and win due to combat inexperience. I am not sure why this is never brought up in this conversation.

That's your excuse for dropping caps on snubs? What is this, 2019-2020 [RM]?

4) Why are you expecting from DTR to be constantly a match-making service for you? It's a real battle, and battle is often chaotic.

See, that's the thing. It isn't a real battle. It's a virtual battle in a video game. Sure, it's chaotic, but that doesn't mean that you need to take every possible opportunity to take a shit on someone because they want to have a pvp interaction with your snubs.

I am not even going to talk about tech advantage because that will get even murkier but no one seems to mention that.

lmao what tech advantage? Nomad guns do a little bit of extra DPS, but that's about it. You've got the Murmillo, otherwise known as the Osiris' big brother, which in the right hands is nearly unkillable by other caps (see @Val for further details). The Legate is awful for pvp because it's huge, but the rest of your ships are fine.

Nomads have a medium bs, which is decent except it's the largest medium bs in the game, the Ish'Tar is a literal bullet sponge, the Irra is a bit on the op side and the Siris has horrible arcs.

I can't speak to the Hessian/Coalition side of things, but Rheinland lawful ships are rather large as well. Bismarck is a chonky boi that you could hit from a mile away with no problem. Nobody uses the Elbe, the Derpitz is nice and the Donau is easy as hell to hit from what I've seen.

Tell me again about how picked on the Corsairs are.

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[Czechmate]

I mean just because admins will be reading this to not get a skewed picture

[21.03.2022 14:46:17] Death: DTR-Aurelius was put out of action by [RM]KKS-Prinz.Adalbert (Gun).
[21.03.2022 14:38:12] Death: WarHog was put out of action by [RM]KKS-Prinz.Adalbert (Gun).
[21.03.2022 14:37:36] Death: DTR-Adriano.Vasquez was put out of action by Admiral.Khrotchofe (Gun).
[21.03.2022 14:46:04] Death: Odiseo was put out of action by [RM]KKS-Prinz.Adalbert (Gun).
[21.03.2022 14:44:24] Death: DTR-Carlo was put out of action by [RM]KKS-Prinz.Adalbert (Gun).
[21.03.2022 14:43:15] Death: DTR-Rafael.Perez was put out of action by [RM]KKS-Prinz.Adalbert (Gun).
[21.03.2022 14:43:31] Death: Achelles was put out of action by KKS-Steinway (Gun).

They took down 2 ours, purposefully gave themselves a tech disadvantage on ships they are not used to because they had bigger numbers.

You can argue all you want, but the hard fact is that DTR has given out more blues than any other faction in the game over their existence - I only play their ENEMIES in pvp I have to stress, besides logging on their side twice since whenever they were founded. I don't understand how this is even a discussion - they are the best PvP faction you can have in your region activity wise.

You trade kills and victories with loads of blues on all sides without the annoying posturing - this is how the game should be played. Who cares you get piled by people from time to time that willingly die to you around the clock. What people are discussing here is anecdotal evidence based on their outtaded, player list winning, log only when someone pings, crush and log off based framework. They assume DTR are doing this always and don't fight when they can't - because every single poster here that has complained does just that often. DTR are changing how the game is played.

[MechaCheff]

Not picking sides here, but I do have a question. Was there an attempt by DTR to message or alert the folks that were coming around the DTR fleet that you guys are doing an event?

Reason I ask is I for one do not spend all day on the forum or Discord, I don't know if factions are holding events even if they announced it in public. However, most in this community will leave you alone if you announce to them that you are trying to do something. There are exceptions, yes there are. But if you've given warning and you are still harassed, then I agree that all 15 or however many ships in your fleet have full justice to rain hell.

We often do that, and get the same result of people attempting to engage anyway. This time it slipped away because we were all bamboozled by the raidmaster telling us to gather at Delta instead of Xi. Thing is, if you see us gathering a huge fleet, you can assume it's always some planned group activity. And if you haven't been notified, it's probably not related to you. Disrupting it is considered rude and definitely will result in a pile of salt on the disruptor's side.

Granted, as @Kauket mentioned, you're not mind readers. Neither are we. But, as I mentioned and she purposefully expunged from her reply to my response on the topic, it's wiser to ask before engaging. The responsibility lies on both sides. We really can't stress this enough. You want a fair fight? Communication is key. Even spontaneously, we can adjust. We've done that several times with other groups of players.

[Oprixy]

Auxo lead complains about ganks when all i've ever seen auxo do is gank. I don't think I have ever seen a fair fight when auxo have been involved. Rememeber that time 5 auxo bombers/VHFs came and attacked 2 APM transports ? Or that time a auxo player decided that it was fine to attack completely ZOI claimed it was assistance to help a gallic cap ship against a couple of APM transports ? Before you start bitching at others look within your own toxic crew first.

Aside from that still not had a problem with DTR I have fought with and against DTR, they will actively take fights they know they will lose even if they have a numbers/skill disadvantage they will still fight.
At the start people complained about thing like not knowing corsair lore these things look like they have been fixed. But disco will always disco till it dies I guess.

[vladimir26]

Reading this is very, very funny but also pathetic. Trolls will troll and continue to troll, but lets take a look at their demands.

A 20man DTR PvE group is approached by 5 people looking for pews? No problem, order 10-15 people to log out, f**k off or play something else and balance the remaining accordingly to the enemies. Oh, and use snubs since corsair lore makes them too poor to use caps. And if the snubs fighters are not aces, just don't bring them. Sair pilots should be formidable. A nomad gunboat is around too? Make sure someone switches to a transport. The nomad player deserves some attention and respect too. How can you let him stay cloaked? Unbelievably rude.

An enemy fleet is comming to Xi and you have to defend? Easy. First number of logging persons who match the attacking party will defend. Others will be stopped from logging, unplug their internet connection if possible, and if not they'll be ordered not to play as corsairs until the encounter is over. Indies log? DTR members will quit the fight, dock and logout ASAP. Easy peasy. Balance must pe kept by all means.

You're planning a public event? Well, do better do advertise it. Every soul around should be aware of your fleets movements, fleet strength and intentions as they might have some suggestions or requiremens for you to take into account. Also, a 3rd party should always be aware of these things since they may own a piece of space, so informing them is mandatory. Should an enemy group appear, all planned activity will be immediatly canceled and an apropiate response will be prepared for the new encounter.

Please be selective when logging in, RP lore should be respected. A weak snub fighter can not be allowed to play one. Also, he can't be allowed to play a cap either, because he has no skill and sair resources is limited, so who would trust a weak pilot the command of a precious cap? And, if you manage to respect all of this until now, try not to balance VHF vs HF or bombers, it lacks balance, obvious.

All of these things can be achieved quite easily, without excuse. Excuses usually mean the lack of willingness to do it. I'll give you a hint. Consider having an officer fly a camera ship, and give orders to every party member. Balance ships, ship classes, even loadouts, numbers, make people log out, make sure 2VHF don't go on a bomber, make sure sair snubs conserve their consumables as resources are few, a sair snub falls back and hugs a cap? Blow him up yourself since he brought shame to the empire while was supossed to be formidable.

Also, you might wanna make sure not so many DTR members are online on sair chars at any given time. You might order them what factions to log or to make, to sort of balance the overall playerbase at a given time. If all of them are online on sairs, another smaller group is FORCED to come for you for pews in small numbers, and all the above requirements must be attended to. Why not to avoid it from the beginning?

Sounds pathetic, isn't it? Sadly, some folks demand this. And it's not a coincidence that only the people who came to gank DTR and others see things like this. And while failing to gank them cuz of certain reasons, the drama is here. So, DTR should be fair and allowed to be ganked by some party crashers. Those people are not willing to stop trying to gank, try to approach DTR in other circumstances or different intentions, or maybe even plan an event or colaborate. No. Their pleasure of blowing up certain groups needs to be satisfied, and everyone needs to respect this and make it happen by any means.