My only concern is that disagreement over how Hogosha get played turns into others trying to invoke a server rule to force them to play another way.
The role play allows a Hogosha to fly to New York--how lawful players there chose to respond is an individual matter but Hogosha are not a "well known criminal group" outside of Kusari. Most would just see them as "Kusari smugglers" at worst. [Kurraine's IC point though is great--good role play view there. IC pilots might treat them very differntly].
Role play is more than adequate to handle this. It does not involve a major review of "the rules". Please note, a JUNKER is arguing this point.
Quote:Im not out to limit peoples RP, just to see that when people pick a faction they stick to there ZOI like everyone else has to.
Since Hogosha are smugglers (mainly) their ZOI can't be restricted like everyone else's.
Same goes for Junkers.
You can't say an Outcast to stop smuggling Cardamine to New Berline because it's out of his ZOI.
Maybe you can, but you can't enforce it trough the rules.
If an Outcast in OC destroyer is in New Berlin, however, you can tell him that.
Same goes for Hogosha.
Quote:Please note, a JUNKER is arguing this point.
And I thank you for your objectiveness.
Lucendez Wrote:
It is every Corsair's responsibility to die a beautiful death in defense of Crete, regardless of how OORP or how capwhoring the opposition is. Launch your fighter, joust the battlecruisers and die a beautiful death. Then, drink it down in the bar.
Quote:Since Hogosha are smugglers (mainly) their ZOI can't be restricted like everyone else's.
Same goes for Junkers.
Junkers are found in nearly all house systems, so there is a basis for them to have a nearly unlimited ZOI.
Quote:My only concern is that disagreement over how Hogosha get played turns into others trying to invoke a server rule to force them to play another way.
Well everyone just turns around and sais "You can't touch me", etc. So without rules/general consensis to back up players then what you RP is meaningless if the other person just ignores it or plays the "im untouchable" RP.
Quote:but Hogosha are not a "well known criminal group" outside of Kusari
If there only means for money is to sell artifacts at NY which people keep saying, then they ARE going to be known as smugglers/pirates in Liberty. So they can't claim to be lawful outside of Kusari if they are known smugglers/pirates.
Quote:Maybe you can, but you can't enforce it trough the rules.
As stated before the Goal isn't to sanction people or to bitch about the rules to people. If for example NY is out of hogosha's ZOI then lawfuls could attack hogosha ships freely without the risk of sanction if a hogosha ship refused to leave. Thats the point, not so people can go "Well rule 1 states XYZ" to others.
You can "touch" a Hogosha player if your character has a valid role play rationale for it.
But you can't play a Liberty cop and arbitrarily say, "You can't come here" or tell a Hogosha player, "Its a server rule--you can't smuggle here".
On the other hand, your character's family might have been killed by Hogosha or your character pirated by them--etc., etc. and you could respond in character. You could tell the authorities you personally consider them a criminal and are attacking them and see how they respond--if you think you can give a plausible reason in game to do so.
That's the fun of role play versus rules.
Hogosha and Junkers are two in game groups that can be played a little differently than the norm.
They can smuggle, pirate, take bounties, fly capital ships and each has opportunities with other factions that most others do not.
The trade off is when you travel away from home, you don't have a powerful faction of warships behind you and get little respect or fear from anyone.
If you want to really mess with them, hire players with Junker IDs to fulfill bounties on any Hogosha they see in Liberty--if that's something your character might do. The Junker ID allows it for them.
' Wrote:If there only means for money is to sell artifacts at NY which people keep saying, then they ARE going to be known as smugglers/pirates in Liberty. So they can't claim to be lawful outside of Kusari if they are known smugglers/pirates.
Stucuk is right. If everytime an LPI/LSF sees a hogosha they are carrying artifacts what are the police going to believe the hogosha do?
It could be argued that the LSF know damn well that the Hogosha smuggle artifacts for the Corsairs, and since Artifacts are contraband in Liberty, it would be reasonable to assume that the LSF have made a point to mention this to the LPI Police board of directors and the Liberty Navy Admiralty. The Navy would adhere to it quite strictly, though the Hogosha could probably bribe the LPI to ignore them because the LPI are quite corrupt.
If the Hogosha are not carrying any contraband, then they would be viewed with deep suspicion but they should not be openly attacked if they are not doing anything wrong by Liberty house laws. However, if there was an Interspace Commerce faction, or an Interspace Commerce player, that IC player could RP contacting a Navy or LPI vessel and saying "I have orders from Interspace to request that you apprehend that foreign criminal immediately. Their organisation is responsible for criminal attacks on our vessels and stations and Interspace will not stand for it! We will protest at the highest levels of government if no action is taken and I will mention your name to the admiralty board if you fail to act, sir. IC is most displeased".
Now, if the Navy or LPI person contacted were in RP they might swallow and say "uhhh...yes sir. On it right away sir, must always ensure the wheels of Liberty's finest corporations are running smoothly. We'll deal with those law breaking criminals! No need to mention me to the admiralty, I always do my job properly! We'll have them ejected from Liberty in a jiffy"
If it were done like that, I would applaud it. But it would be nice to see it kept in RP like that.
Quote:If there only means for money is to sell artifacts at NY which people keep saying, then they ARE going to be known as smugglers/pirates in Liberty. So they can't claim to be lawful outside of Kusari if they are known smugglers/pirates.
Quote:Stucuk is right. If everytime an LPI/LSF sees a hogosha they are carrying artifacts what are the police going to believe the hogosha do?
-If you make a rule to forbid Hogosha entering Liberty, you will not be able to catch them with artifacts, and you won't know about their "crime background", would you? So, it's actually contradicting itself.
-So, when LPI catches player X smuggling light arms they ask him to drop it.. He does that.
And next time he shows up in NY they automatically kill him? Or better yet, report him because he's OORP.
See, I didn't know about that.
Darn!
Lucendez Wrote:
It is every Corsair's responsibility to die a beautiful death in defense of Crete, regardless of how OORP or how capwhoring the opposition is. Launch your fighter, joust the battlecruisers and die a beautiful death. Then, drink it down in the bar.
' Wrote:-If you make a rule to forbid Hogosha entering Liberty, you will not be able to catch them with artifacts, and you won't know about their "crime background", would you? So, it's actually contradicting itself.
-So, when LPI catches player X smuggling light arms they ask him to drop it.. He does that.
And next time he shows up in NY they automatically kill him? Or better yet, report him because he's OORP.
See, I didn't know about that.
Darn!
Junkers have been banned from Kusari by factions. But I guess that is ok... No rule is needed to ban hogosha from liberty like no rule is need to ban corsairs from liberty. They realy should not be there.
No one mentioned automaticaly killing anyone or reporting them. My point was if all hogosha do is smuggle then eventualy the law will see them as smugglers. So the idea that liberty doesn't know about them is moot. Its like saying the police don't know Junkers smuggle. Of course they know its just that Junkers pay them to look the other way. The hogosha do not have that relationship with liberty because they stick to kusari and have the same deal with the kusari authorities.
Look, I wold love to see artifact prices in Kusari raised A LOT, and I'v said that a zillion times.
I would be happiest if no Hogosha ever entered Liberty. I never even entered Kepler/Galileo.
But there are people who want to earn money under Hogosha flag, and that is one of the ways to do it.
If they are caught, they will drop cargo or get destroyed, or even bribe the police.
Point is, It's silly to attack someone who's smuggling under certain flag instead of smuggling under generic ID.
You know, you can easily destroy Hogosha vessel for ANY reason and you would not be responsible for it.
If you destroy a smuggler (generic) even though he dropped the cargo, you get a slap.
Delete Generic ID's and give a bit loose to people who actually smuggle with real risk.
Lucendez Wrote:
It is every Corsair's responsibility to die a beautiful death in defense of Crete, regardless of how OORP or how capwhoring the opposition is. Launch your fighter, joust the battlecruisers and die a beautiful death. Then, drink it down in the bar.
' Wrote:-If you make a rule to forbid Hogosha entering Liberty, you will not be able to catch them with artifacts, and you won't know about their "crime background", would you? So, it's actually contradicting itself.
Nope. You don't ban groups from areas without proof. If hogosha are constantly smuggling then the police would have all the proof they need to submit to a judge to get the faction put to a Criminal Status. So its not controdicting its self.
Quote:But there are people who want to earn money under Hogosha flag, and that is one of the ways to do it.
Rearly they should be taxing people who enter there space to get money as thats what Mafias do, they get a cut of every deal happening. They don't go off into someone elses turf to sell stuff when there all alone and would most likley die. You only enter someone elses turf if A) you have a lot of backup or B) they have allowed you safe passage.
Quote:You know, you can easily destroy Hogosha vessel for ANY reason and you would not be responsible for it.
Only junkers currently seem to be able to attack Hogosha, if any other group does then the Hogosha would cry "Im a lawful, you can't touch me".
![[Image: Tink_Shadow.png]](http://junkers.worldstrider.info/images/Tink_Shadow.png)
![[Image: stucuk_freelancer_sig.png]](http://www.universalphpscripts.com/images/stucuk_freelancer_sig.png)
![[Image: stucuk.png]](http://miniprofile.xfire.com/bg/sh/type/2/stucuk.png)
![[Image: AiTakedaSignature.jpg]](http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh185/Kuraine/AiTakedaSignature.jpg)