(06-20-2023, 11:18 PM)Shimamori Wrote: Tbh, so far for non-trading factions it is less of an incentive and more of another RP "duty". Establishing and protecting trade convoys is an activity hardly taking place even now with lots of trade oriented factions. I know it is an RP server and everything should be "open to your creativity", as you put it. But imho when the "deal" is much in favour of only one, i. e. trading side, there is also a big incentive to shut the deal down as a tedious matter and avoid all the hustle. When RP feels more of a duty rather than an incentive and as in the case with the OF system, when players realise they have to log rather they want to, it quickly spirals down to inactivity and burnout. A deal per se has to benefit both sides.
As of now, the system will organically benefit two trading factions dealing with each other. Beyond that? Meh. Additionally, many factions avoid becoming OF because of the hustle involved, and adding even more to it without adding anything of value, really, is hardly an incentive, imho. Like people said, re-imagining it for unof can be a good idea.
P.S. it is always better to criticise while offering something as constructive feedback. Yet, I fail to osee how to make the system as it is being suggested now engaging for the governments. Pixel empire building is an argument per se, but it also can be used against trade deals too, e.g. isolationism, protectionism, trade parties non grata, etc.
I don't see why it should - any side can trade? Why wouldn't e.g. Gallic Navy and Rheinland Military make a deal for ablative armor and haul it themselves if they so choose? Or e.g. GC- with [R] on their commods. I guess the "ownership" barrier comes into place then? The solution to that is below.
You missed the point I was making. Any faction can trade, surely. But what is the benefit for, say, KNF that I closely play with if, say, some zoners request access to plutonium, as Zentor had described as an example? We can follow your logic and assume KNF gets ablative armour in return (which given the scale and scope of zoner "economy" it is better to mass produce back home). KNF not being a trade faction, it doesn't need access to zoner goods for gameplay, not will it trade by itself. RP as a benefit? What RP? Pay us X so that for Y period of time you can get better prices for commodity Z? Imho, not a very appealing RP for a military faction. To get some perks like +x% of hull as the result of the trade deal is too much and will be abused, so I envision no perks. So, what's the point for KNF in this deal altogether? Surely, any side can trade just like you are saying, but why would they?
In that case? None, only Zoner side should eat a perk, KNF just gives permission.
KNF can absolutely trade themselves. Why? RP hauling+Activity, It can even get a perk/boost from within Kusari from their own corps! Pretty much all OFs on any non generic faction have 4.3k access. There are commodities like military vehicles etc. that can easily be boosted, bought from a corp and then hauled to Navy base by Naval logistics from corp sell point. What's cool about this OF only thing is that You can calculate the profit with 4.3k limit in mind, giving factions for whom it's normally not profitable to trade a reason to do so.
You do realise that people in non trade factions generally dislike trading? I traded for the sake of profit last time like in 2018 and have been indifferent to trading since then. Many people I have played together with feel absolutely the same way, especially when they have accumulated billions of credits across their accounts and already have like 3 Tokugawas, Tempests, and whatnot (hello Couden). Why would these people do RP about or engage in activities they do not find either interesting or rewarding, or facilitate the RP of others at the expense of their own time and efforts directed towards something they do not like? The very concept of a deal implies some benefit to both sides unless it is some kind of an ultimatum.
(06-21-2023, 08:57 AM)Shimamori Wrote: You do realise that people in non trade factions generally dislike trading? I traded for the sake of profit last time like in 2018 and have been indifferent to trading since then. Many people I have played together with feel absolutely the same way, especially when they have accumulated billions of credits across their accounts and already have like 3 Tokugawas, Tempests, and whatnot (hello Couden). Why would these people do RP about or engage in activities they do not find either interesting or rewarding, or facilitate the RP of others at the expense of their own time and efforts directed towards something they do not like? The very concept of a deal implies some benefit to both sides unless it is some kind of an ultimatum.
This is precisely why I think this should be OF perk-based, easy to get, with light RP requirements. One in rp agreement from the other side, perk request - boom done, you have the plugin live for up to 30 days for the OF that requested it. Joint route if it makes sense and both factions used a perk.
And if you don't like hauling, don't use the trade deal perk
Nice initiative, but I find this a bit pointless. Instead of trying to "tack on" this perk-like gimmick to the current system there should be a greater movement to redesign the system altogether. Like once suggested for the mining rework there should be a more interesting system of extremely profitable "trade routes" and factions vying to control them. The routes would be unlocked by the four-way diplomacy between the producing faction, the consuming faction and the respective governments of their Houses.
Like in the modern corporate world the trading factions should compete through doing favors for the governments, and sabotaging other faction's efforts by "secretly" funding unlawful elements to attack and raid the shipping convoys of their rivals and bribing government officials to vote in their favour.
Governments would need stuff done, like fleet rebuilding contracts, trade lane / jump gate (re)construction and trading factions would get these lucrative contracts as well as perks in the form of exclusive rights to trade certain high-profit commodities, access to military tech, docking rights on restricted stations, POB construction rights on low-infrastructure planets etc.
Of course, this would also mean the Devs would need to relegate some (minor) control of the Story back to the House Govs and Official factions in order for these contracts to have a small impact and incentive for everyone involved to participate. Which means it will happen... about the same time hell freezees over.
