' Wrote:light mortars are useless on cruisers. They take too much energy, and at that kind of range you cant even hit another cruiser with one. The only target you'll be hitting is a battleship that isnt moving.
Oh really?
I have one on my dessie.... that has a 20vs0 cruiser kills score... and I do hit cruisers just fine. I also made 2 BS ran after they lost all shieldbatteries while I lost nothing. Well yes the Kusari Dessie is most agile.. but it can't fire backwards.In normal cruiser you can thrust/strafe and shoot your guns from rearview, the BS/BC can't close up since they don't have thrusters.
Oh and I also have some 6 bomber kills by the Light Mortar, 5 of them are catamarans and 3 of those are with the best dodger around at the stick.
Normal turrets might be good for sustained fire , which you mostly don't get opportunity for when you fight against GBs.
Also as was written normal turrets have 2k range while mortar has 3.5. From 3k you have no problems hitting large battleships while they can't hit you.
Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.
Well Specialised weapons should have better energy efficiency, As it stands now, you are doing less damage per second if you use special weapons instead of all out base turrets, while keeping up better energy efficiency. I've did some calculations on battleship mortars, vs regular turrets...
Order mk1s does 0.1875 damage per energy unit spent, while the heavy mortar does about 0.09 half as efficient, ....The same goes for infernos and such...
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I have a pair of Mortars on my Brit Dessi (one forward one back) and they are awsome VS Bombers. Just set a key for 'em like you would a SNAC or a Mini.
I'd classify you (Varyag) and Moljinr as Mortar super stars then. Because I get into ALOT of PVP and no one has landed a mortar hit on it with a mortar yet.
Unless that means I'm a superstar but, I'm willing to say the amount I die that I'm not. So, the moral of the stroy, if all but two say there is something wrong then perhaps something is wrong.
You really cant compare the kusari destroyer to the other cruisers out there. The thing manuvers like a damn gunboat and has a small profile to boot.
My experience comes from using the zoner destroyer, which has a fairly large hitbox, and only average manuverability. The only other cruiser-class ships that I was able to take on consistently and win were outcast destroyers, due to their huge blind spot (underside) and the fact that they have an even bigger profile than I do, with less manuverability.
Scornstar two days ago you (or someone else who was on the Harvester cruiser at that moment) hit me in the BHG bomber with Cruiser Razor 3 times... and I did dodge.
' Wrote:You really cant compare the kusari destroyer to the other cruisers out there. The thing manuvers like a damn gunboat and has a small profile to boot.
Problems is you need turn towards the enemy all the time, in Kusari dessie against BS you:
1. thrust to it's side
2. turn at least a bit towards it
3. go to turret view and fire mortar while straffing
or 4. turn to face it and fire while straffing
in a normal cruiser that can fire backwards you can:
1. stay in front of the BS with you rear toward it
2. fire mortars while straffing
3. hit thruster if needed (the BS comes towards you)
The simplest counter to the Kusari dessie is a CD, anything that can CD its turns wins.
EDIT: and about the "norm" to this day I saw around FIVE people that could fly a cruiser. The other 99% cruiser captains just can't fly it at all.
Mostly they are fresh powertraders who want something "better" than GB but don't have money for BS. So their first ship is a Cruiser and they get owned by (at least average) GB and bomber pilots. Then they go around saying how cruiser are crap... when it's themselves who were crap when they flew it.
I'm not saying Cruisers are perfect.. they need some changes, but most of them should be done on the GB side of the equation.
Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.
' Wrote:Scornstar two days ago you (or someone else who was on the Harvester cruiser at that moment) hit me in the BHG bomber with Cruiser Razor 3 times... and I did dodge.
It's not difficult really... pure timing.
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Problems is you need turn towards the enemy all the time, in Kusari dessie against BS you:
1. thrust to it's side
2. turn at least a bit towards it
3. go to turret view and fire mortar while straffing
or 4. turn to face it and fire while straffing
in a normal cruiser that can fire backwards you can:
1. stay in front of the BS with you rear toward it
2. fire mortars while straffing
3. hit thruster if needed (the BS comes towards you)
The simplest counter to the Kusari dessie is a CD, anything that can CD its turns wins.
EDIT: and about the "norm" to this day I saw around FIVE people that could fly a cruiser. The other 99% cruiser captains just can't fly it at all.
Mostly they are fresh powertraders who want something "better" than GB but don't have money for BS. So their first ship is a Cruiser and they get owned by (at least average) GB and bomber pilots. Then they go around saying how cruiser are crap... when it's themselves who were crap when they flew it.
I'm not saying Cruisers are perfect.. they need some changes, but most of them should be done on the GB side of the equation.
Hmmm. Well I'm jealous cause as far as I know I never hit you with anything but missles and nomad turrets. You are on powerthirst in your bombers. However the Harvesters are now takeing power thirst as a requirment.
I dont use battle razors but many of our members do.
I would consider myself a medium pilot in criusers and gunboats since I own currently 3 criusers and 2 gunboats, I have other ships too but these are my caps.
I have flown these criusers for almost everyday for comeing on a year. I must say, that I find few who are as passionate about the criuser class as I. They are pure fun for me. I can agree some complaints do come from the frustrated folks in a new ship they cant handle to its fullest yet. But I will be bold and say I am not one.
I am just recommending that we balance these ships with new pilots as the piloting factor, with which we measure by. Since we all know that experience can push an envelope of any craft to many times its statisical value. How ever the balance should be set at the starting line not at the pro level.
This is the idea I'm attempting to put out there. Then again one may say how does one fully test something useing folks who may not comfortably know how to use every function? My answer, get fighter jocks in caps to test and cap jocks in fighters. Both are experienced to give an analysis, yet both will have the noob abilities in the give ship class.
You were on Harv. 17 and someone was on a Talarca with you (36 or 32 I think) hitting me with those razors just fine.
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' Wrote:This is the idea I'm attempting to put out there. Then again one may say how does one fully test something useing folks who may not comfortably know how to use every function? My answer, get fighter jocks in caps to test and cap jocks in fighters. Both are experienced to give an analysis, yet both will have the noob abilities in the give ship class.
Yes that's a perfect idea...
....and that's what I did myself... wanted to know what all those capship pilots talk about...
so I got myself a GB:
1. BHG GS... after few fights killing 2 bombers+ fighters etc. I started screaming how it's uber.. and everyone agreed
then
2. Rogue GB, Orca and others.. they are not overpowered but it's still reasonable to take good 1 bomber +2 fighters and win, so I realized most GB pilots can't aim.
=> then I got 2 Cruisers.. and found out that they can rape bombers if they surprise them, that they hit bomber with normal guns just fine.. and that Kusari dessie can rape GBs without breaking a sweat. => So I realized most Cruiser pilots can't aim either
As I mentioned already (a few times) cruiser problems come mostly from GBs being overpowered against them. No cruiser alone should kill a BS of same skill. 2 Cruisers don't really have problems now - if they stay at range and don't try to overpower it from close by.
Cruiser should probably survive bombers a bit longer.. so that escorting fighters have time to hurt the bombers.. but that's about it.
Some increase in armor for cruisers.. and fixing the badly balanced ones:
Corsair Cruiser, Dragon Cruiser, Huntress... Zoner dessie is in my eyes primarily an RP ship, much like the coming GB.
Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.
I just dont like how inefficient and largely ineffective the specialized weapons for caps are. A gunboat razor does something like 8000 hull damage for 60,000 energy, while a fighter mini-razor does 19,000 hull damage for around 6,000 energy... it makes absolutely no sense from a balance perspective.
Capship weapons should take more energy, but not as much as they're consuming right now - and they should be doing more damage -in all situations- than fighter equivalents. Likewise with the light mortar, it costs 500,000 energy for about 50,000 damage, while a bomber supernova costs around 60,000? energy for 132,000 damage...
Capship weapons are just too inefficient and ineffective at the moment.
As a mtter of a fact I have been wanting to try a fighter character as of late. i have my Kith SHF but the word is Igiss has plans for it. And machine characters may get a fighter too, so I was wanting to get my fighter skills up. As with the ship adjustments we may have to mod our ship roles.
Any suggestions for a fighter noob to fly, the only two I've like so far are the Ravens claw and talon.