you wont push it trough guys. Don't be angry, but it's a fact. They want you to make a money demand, so do it. Do the famous 2mil or die thing and blame it on them. Blame it on everyone thats crippling your rp. And when you indeed find that one trader that rps, man.. follow him everywhere, even act like his escort because its more fun than losing your nerves on here, in game and in sanction report threads.
Green Hawk... Here, I've made 895M+ (I stoped counting then) on that char alone, just by pirating the Niobium Run...
Now what's this talk of rules and sanctions regarding piracy...
I cannot find what cannot be done anymore... the rules say as far as I see...
6. ID and role-playing engagement rules
6.17 Owners of Pirate IDs have a right to attack:
- Military/Police
- Bounty Hunters
- Trader ships that do not pay for passage
- Unfriendly pirates
So Untill they pay for passage every pirate has the right to engage and attack them...
To kill them the next rule applies
6.19 Pirates and terrorists have a right to deal as much damage as they see fit before or after demanding money from a trader ship, but killing trader ship before demanding money or cargo is not allowed. Attacking traders or demanding cargo is not allowed for cruisers and battleships, unless cruisers and battleship belong to Terrorist ID or Phantom ID owner.
So I simply demand that they surrender their money (ammount) or cargo whatever I choose. And make them pay...
Rules are clear on this. And I support the current rules as they are. If this is the petitioning part.
Is there any other rule coming up? Something regarding jumpholes?
Donate to the Poor Pilot's Fundation via Sirius Bank /givecash GreenHawk 1000000 now, and support poor pilots sirius wide!
Skype: jure.grbec
My primary char: Jose El Nino - Corsair Elder captain of the SS Greenhawk
Currently Inactive due to pursuit of life long dreams, will be back...*edited* As promised am back.
My problem in the other thread was that the rule doesn't clarify what a pirate can and cannot do in full;
Quote:6.19 Pirates and terrorists have a right to deal as much damage as they see fit before or after demanding money from a trader ship, but killing trader ship before demanding money or cargo is not allowed. Attacking traders or demanding cargo is not allowed for cruisers and battleships, unless cruisers and battleship belong to Terrorist ID or Phantom ID owner.
This is the rule as it is now. Currently the rule only says that you must make a demand for cargo (interchangeable with credits) before actually destroying the trader. In the thread regarding this rule, an ADMIN said that you could get punished even if you followed this rule to the letter, and that was my gripe.
If I shoot a trader's hull down to 1-5% and he begins to whine and cry about it in an ooRP fashion, I'll almost always raise the demand to some absurd price just because he's not roleplaying and in my opinion he deserves to die at the very least. This is the only scenario where I would try to demand, for example, 15 million credits from a trader.
If the ADMINs are going to change the rule, that's fine, but if they do it should be changed in a way where both sides understand it fully and so that there is no confusion.
I don't see what the fuss is about, the rule hasn't been changed from what it's been for so long now, and honestly it isn't that difficult to type while pursuing a trader. Set your CD to a weapongroup so you can access it quickly. After knocking their hull down to 5%, make your demand, but strive to make things fun for the trader while you're at it. Some traders (as players) will never have fun regardless of what you do in this situation, but others will, and I think that's really why the "spirit" of the rule is so important.
You don't have to catch every trader. If a trader keeps mocking you at the NB/S-17 jumphole, ask him to halt, and when he doesn't just chase him and blast his hull/shields down to like 1%. The Wilde will take care of him on the other side of the JH. The rule doesn't say anything about killing them via NPC's (which I've done before, accidentally of course).
I'm not sure what we're debating here, exactly. The rule hasn't been changed and is the same as it's always been before, and as far as "2 mill or die" goes, in my opinion that's never been acceptable piracy RP. Sure, use "2mill or die" if you need too, just be sure to add a little more roleplay into your raid before actually letting the trader go. Make smalltalk with him, or maybe explain to him why it is exactly you're taxing him. There's plenty of things you can do to respect this rule without having to break your own roleplay along the way.
In short, just try to make the situation fun for the person you're killing/taxing. Instead of killing him outright, chase after him and terrorize him while taking smallshots at his 1% hull. Keep his shields down while he flees to the nearest base. Let him try to cling on to hope as laugh like the maniac you are in his wake, and then if necessary, kill him at the end if it's what your character would do. You should keep in mind that pirates likely enjoy inspiring fear just as much as they enjoy popping a tradeship, and I think the "spirit" of the rule was intended to keep this relationship intact and not to actually restrict pirates.
' Wrote:well, one problem with these rules is that they expect pirates to be all the same.
as a Gaian, i d much more like to make the demand "turn around or die" - instead of "give me some cash" ... cause gaians want traders not to trade with spa and cruiser or BMM or others that they dislike. - they are terrorizing the traders, making their route as uncomfortable as possible.
a simple "halt" though is not enough .. i think. - it happened quite some times that a pirate was barely on scanner range, sometimes even only at 14k and screamed HALT into the empty space. - this is not a demand at all. this is nonsense.
when a pirate is up close, even CDed the trader though... a "halt, cut your engines" is a reasonable demand. - but since its a very different situations, we cannot consider a simple HALT to be a demand. - or what should we say.....
halt! or stop! is only a valid demand when in firing range? ... whos firing range then. - and can we enforce it?
or can we simply shout a halt into space, cause we know that a trader is somewhere ... and we re trying to get him.
the current rule to clearly make a demand for a reasonable amount of cash is not perfect, but it ensures a safe enviroment for both, traders and pirates. ( safe in terms of - you cannot interprete it to your liking too much )
a clear demand is not "give me a donation" either. - a clear demand is to set a reasonable amount of money like "give me 500k" - which should be the very shortest demand possible ( or the dreaded : "500k or die!" - which is living proof of the stereotype that pirates are either lobotamized or drained their braincells in alcohol )
i say "halt, cut your engines, please", too when i pirate - but its still not a demand. - i also say "you might consider a small donation for the gaians cause" ... which is still not a demand. - only when i get to the point that i say "500k and you are free to go" - i have met the requirements to actually kill the trader if he does not comply. - and it works...
i sometimes had to make quick demands to meet this rule.. when a trader was opening fire on me while moving away. - desperate not to violate the rules, i just made a "500k or you die" and then killed the trader.
however, if a trader opens fire and drains 50% of the pirates shields - i think there should not be a demand needed anymore. - so if a pirate meets a triggerhappy trader that shoots at him before he could make a demand, i think that the pirate should be allowed to kill the trader in return, without making a demand, as that would be silly - both in terms of gamebalance and RP.
My responce is this. If you hear "HALT Jinx" and your takeing fire, they are talking to you. Or, conversely if you have a good speed and EKing to a near by JH you may just hear "Halt!" again if your takeing fire Its you.
If you can get away no problem. Traders should alway be able to run. However, pirates should be able to blast traders into bits for not halting.
What I have found is that "Halt Trader-X unit" has worked for me, in conjuction with CDs and gunboat fire. But since the trader KNOWS now he CAN'T be KILLED till he hears an amount, they have no fear of death.
And at least in my case the script for a Harvester to pirate is "This unit requires 2 million resource credits", try typeing that to a chain criuser, or some one who EKed to a JH. Would the erver really benefit from Harvesters saying "2 mill now!" Its hard to be methodical and consistant if there are no real consequences to halting.
Do not confuse this with saying traders can't do what ever they need to live. THats fine. I'm saying if they push thier luck there should be consequnces. The threat of death is what stops some traders and lets RP get interesting. And more creative.
Instill fear yeah... I like to take out their guns, their thrusters their cargo pods... everything for a slow and painful death... to the trader...
The "spirit" of the rule is to improve RP, to a point where you are obligated to atleast say something before you take out a trader... Before that rule you could just shoot at the trader and he would have to scream for help begging you to stop and offering you money in return... Now not even NPC's do that... but terrorists might pirate like that... or terrorize to be accurate.
So if the whole spirit of the rule is to produce atleast some RP in the piracy section why is there so much fus about it... Has anyone ever been sanctioned becouse they would roleplay their demand and blew up a trader who didn't agree on the tearms?
On the other hand, why don't we report traders who say... "after I die my guns will magicly respawn so you can't touch me lol"... they are OORP in system chat... something that is sanctionable... where's pirating the way it should be done isn't.
I don't see where the problem is, even if an Admin sliped his word and said something... as long as it Isn't official there is no real problem.
Edit: Oh so Halt is not considered a demand... then say "I Demand you to halt!"
Donate to the Poor Pilot's Fundation via Sirius Bank /givecash GreenHawk 1000000 now, and support poor pilots sirius wide!
Skype: jure.grbec
My primary char: Jose El Nino - Corsair Elder captain of the SS Greenhawk
Currently Inactive due to pursuit of life long dreams, will be back...*edited* As promised am back.
what so basically with this interpritation to PIRATE you need to get money or cargo?
what if i dont want em passing through a certain part of space at all? that will be sanctionable.
that aint a RP rule thats restricting it cummon
EDIT: be it money, cargo, or just plain not wanting them there it is all a DEMAND, telling them to halt is a demand, telling them to stop is a DEMAND, might aswell just rid piracy from the game completely if thats the case
' Wrote:I don't care if the rule is changed.
My problem in the other thread was that the rule doesn't clarify what a pirate can and cannot do in full;
This is the rule as it is now. Currently the rule only says that you must make a demand for cargo (interchangeable with credits) before actually destroying the trader. In the thread regarding this rule, an ADMIN said that you could get punished even if you followed this rule to the letter, and that was my gripe.
If I shoot a trader's hull down to 1-5% and he begins to whine and cry about it in an ooRP fashion, I'll almost always raise the demand to some absurd price just because he's not roleplaying and in my opinion he deserves to die at the very least. This is the only scenario where I would try to demand, for example, 15 million credits from a trader.
If the ADMINs are going to change the rule, that's fine, but if they do it should be changed in a way where both sides understand it fully and so that there is no confusion.
I don't see what the fuss is about, the rule hasn't been changed from what it's been for so long now, and honestly it isn't that difficult to type while pursuing a trader. Set your CD to a weapongroup so you can access it quickly. After knocking their hull down to 5%, make your demand, but strive to make things fun for the trader while you're at it. Some traders (as players) will never have fun regardless of what you do in this situation, but others will, and I think that's really why the "spirit" of the rule is so important.
You don't have to catch every trader. If a trader keeps mocking you at the NB/S-17 jumphole, ask him to halt, and when he doesn't just chase him and blast his hull/shields down to like 1%. The Wilde will take care of him on the other side of the JH. The rule doesn't say anything about killing them via NPC's (which I've done before, accidentally of course).
I'm not sure what we're debating here, exactly. The rule hasn't been changed and is the same as it's always been before, and as far as "2 mill or die" goes, in my opinion that's never been acceptable piracy RP. Sure, use "2mill or die" if you need too, just be sure to add a little more roleplay into your raid before actually letting the trader go. Make smalltalk with him, or maybe explain to him why it is exactly you're taxing him. There's plenty of things you can do to respect this rule without having to break your own roleplay along the way.
In short, just try to make the situation fun for the person you're killing/taxing. Instead of killing him outright, chase after him and terrorize him while taking smallshots at his 1% hull. Keep his shields down while he flees to the nearest base. Let him try to cling on to hope as laugh like the maniac you are in his wake, and then if necessary, kill him at the end if it's what your character would do. You should keep in mind that pirates likely enjoy inspiring fear just as much as they enjoy popping a tradeship, and I think the "spirit" of the rule was intended to keep this relationship intact and not to actually restrict pirates.
What is being descussed is this.
Stop is NOT considered a valid demand. Thus a trader who refuses to stop no matter how close you are and how much you fire, has no fear of death till you say HOWMUCH.
I am not saying yelling " HALT!!" on system chat gives you clearance to kill every trader. I'm saying that the trader 2k from a jump hole whose takeing fire left and right and thrusting for all thier worth can get away everytime before you can type anything interesting out.
Keep in mind this rule impact more than each of our favorite pirateing spot.
If a trader does not have to fear death for not stopping, and cares nothing for RP then, then how do you RP pirateing beyond 2 mill or die.
I challenge even Admin to pirate me. I'll even tell where I'm going just not where I'm comeing from and we will see how plausible it is to pirate. We will see if they can stop me while avoiding a capital planet and not killing me before makeing a demand. Further more they will still have more freedom then I give members of the Harvesters who have a script.
Simply put I have enough bots and bats and enough rules in my favor that I dont see any lone pirate stopping me. Use a gunboat a criuser I dont care this trader coddleing is a recipie for trade invincibility to me.
I propose we leave it alone and keep it the way it has been for years. They are not rewriteing the rules as far as I know. But they are now interpeting it differently. Refer to the links in post 1 of this thread.
Or to the Piracy by the rule thread post 1.
I say stop is a valid demand. You can choose to run and risk death, or you can stop. After all what if lawfuls were not allowed to kill smugglers for not stopping? This scale has been thrown too far out of balance.
' Wrote:I've seen several posts recently that demonstrate that many of you pirates have some misconceptions about what it is that you are allowed to do.
There are no exceptions to this. "Halt" or "stop" followed by being ignored is NOT a legitimate excuse to blow up a ship under any circumstances.
Further proof can be found in this sanction report, and this warning from an Admin.
You can yell "stop" all you want, but until you make a financial demand of some kind, a kill shot is a violation of Server Rule 6.19.
"Stop or die" does NOT constitute Piracy, it constitutes terrorism, which is illegal if you don't have a terrorist ID.
Speaking as both a pirate and a trader, it is NOT the trader's responsibility to stop everytime a pirate demands it. It is the "responsibility" of the pirate to force the trader into a corner that he can't escape from. If the pirate can't do that, he loses and the trader wins. If the trader can't escape or kill the pirate, then he ought to pay the pirate to avoid the destruction of his ship. If the pirate cannot corner the trader then he shouldn't expect the trader to do him any favors.
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