Jump hole "abuse" is not against the rules

[Eppy]

If they want people to still play in this server at the end of the day, they better not to have this kind of mindset. At least it would be much easier on them to administer.

I know them all (except Vero. New guys...:P), and none of them play with that mindset, (the ones that play at all) thank god; if they did we'd have a much smaller server. But that doesn't change the fact that it was decided a sanctionable offense, and that this isn't even the first time. Even if that reasoning isn't often invoked the Administrators have the right to say Because I Said So.

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Quick comment - we thought that Panzer was the Leader, Swift. -Agmen

Which Dreadnought was that?

One of your nine.

[Akumabito]

I don't see your issue with quickdocking - its as neccessary as normal docking. As Dab has said multiple times.

No it isn't. It's handy outside of combat, because it saves you a little time, but when done in combat to evade another player it's an exploit, you are bypassing "real" docking to remove yourself from harm.

It doesn't take 10 minutes to do a normal dock in the vast majority of cases, you can still position yourself for a smooth normal dock and not quickdock.

Quickdocking is much more like F1 than jump hole ping ponging is.

Engine Kill is also neccessary, maybe not when Cruise Diruptors are being fired, i agree, as this then makes it impossible to halt a cruising transport. However, it makes ship turn around much faster and therefore is a skill to be used in combat.

Ekill is by no means necessary, and it is an exploit to use it to avoid or fire a CD, as well as using it to leapfrog.

But yes... this jump hole business, and i am a trader, not a fighter or pirate, is wrong... it wastes people's time, and makes you invincible until the pirates give up. IT IS HARMFUL TO GAMEPLAY

It doesn't waste peoples time unless they choose to waste their time, nor are you invincible, you are just hard to catch. It's a tactic that has no rule outlawing it, and therefore sanctioning it is wrong, flat out wrong.

Its not a written rule, but if every rule were written it would take days to read and understand them.

No it wouldn't, it would improve the server immensely to have clear, precise rules and they wouldn't be any more difficult to read and understand as the disaster we have now for rules.

Of course clarification of the rules would decrease the power the admins have to sanction people at will.

[Akumabito]

the Administrators have the right to say Because I Said So.

They have the power to do so, the "might makes right" argument. That doesn't mean it's the right thing to do or that it's good for the server.

If ping ponging is illegal, what is good for the server is to make that clear in the rules.

That's what an admin who took his job as being here to help the server run smoothly would do.

The "because I say so" type admin who sanctions things that aren't clear rule violations isn't putting the server community first imho.

[worldstrider]

It's not about saying abuse of it can't be sanctioned--its saying "its breaking a rule" because some players are offended by it.

Its a tactic to dive in and then back out of a jump hole--just not over and over. As to the battleship example--same.

Not over and over.

The logic though I personally object to is:

1) I don't like it.

2) I see it as abuse.

3) No other view matters.

4) You should be sanctioned.

Stop abuse--not create a new rule and accept subjective determinations as "absolutes". How dangerous are JHs? Apparently not extremely dangerous with careful use.

Larger ships do get stuck in them and never complete the junp sequence--that IS instability and dangerous.

Sometimes they create an ion storm if you fast dock them and your game crashes--that's a good simulation of instability too.

Other times induced lag causes you to take accumulated damage instantly when you emerge near attacking hostiles on the other side.

These are definitive risks already present without having to arbitrarily say, "Certain death to go through".

Navies and corporations WOULD tell their pilots to avoid them for the reasons above. You might lose the ship, we have nothing to hide or the expense is to great--use the lanes. Pirates and independent traders? Might just take their chances.

There is also the chance to "block" the hole by docking first so their dock is interrupted or an npc might even do it. It's not a guarantee it will always work.

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[Eppy]

Those, fortunately, Akuma, are your opinions, and your definition of 'right' and 'wrong'. Luckily for us the Admins don't subscribe to such definitions, lest the rules would be six times as thick and we'd be banning people for something negligible, like selling their cargo or Roleplaying.

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Quick comment - we thought that Panzer was the Leader, Swift. -Agmen

Which Dreadnought was that?

One of your nine.

[tfmachad]

...
Ekill is by no means necessary, and it is an exploit to use it to avoid or fire a CD, as well as using it to leapfrog.
...

You do know that being hit by a CD while EKing WILL turn your engines back on, bringing your ship instantly back to the 80 speed, don't you?

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Meet the Kriegers - The story of a family and of two men that shared more than just a name
Fantasmas de la Nube Siniestra
I Mon'Star: The Strange Case of Elizabeth Wallace

[Akumabito]

You do know that being hit by a CD while EKing WILL turn your engines back on, bringing your ship instantly back to the 80 speed, don't you?

No. It's not a tactic I use so I don't know the mechanics of it. I know it is used to CD people while maintain cruise speed, which is an exploit as much as ping ponging is, and it is used to leapfrog in conjunction with cruise to catch up.

[worldstrider]

Nobody use tactics I don't like!

There, that should summarize all the objections.

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[Akumabito]

Those, fortunately, Akuma, are your opinions, and your definition of 'right' and 'wrong'. Luckily for us the Admins don't subscribe to such definitions, lest the rules would be six times as thick and we'd be banning people for something negligible, like selling their cargo or Roleplaying.

Actually clear and concise rules wouldn't be any longer than they are now and would be easier to understand. removing gray areas is a good thing.
Claiming that fair admins + fair rules = banning people for rping is rather silly.

The fact is, since this wasn't against the rules and similar exploits are allowed by the admins it seems very unfair to sanction people for it, more indicative of the work of a personal bias.

Most people who look at it fairly would warn the person not to continue the behavior, and then if it was decided it should be a sanctionable offense add it to the rules so there is no doubt in peoples minds about it being illegal. That's what good administration is all about. Being fair instead of being heavy handed, refusing to explain a sanction, and sanctioning people who didn't clearly break a rule.

[dr lameos]

No it isn't. It's handy outside of combat, because it saves you a little time, but when done in combat to evade another player it's an exploit, you are bypassing "real" docking to remove yourself from harm.

It doesn't take 10 minutes to do a normal dock in the vast majority of cases, you can still position yourself for a smooth normal dock and not quickdock.

Quickdocking is much more like F1 than jump hole ping ponging is.

In both normal docking and quickdocking the player is invincible, it make no difference, except normal docking takes a lot longer therefore wasting time

In PvP terms there is no advantage when quickdocking: it doesn't matter how you dock you are invincible

How many times does that need to be said before you understand: when docking, you are invincible

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