Player input on handling Special RP characters

[chovynz]

Just to also point out...

You know that you'd nail someone if they were reported with an OC/Bret mix. Hell, you DID it, after I reported someone for such weirdness alongside other stuff that day. You are fully aware of the Fantasia, and you say 'oh that isn't ooRP, but the Sabre with Splitters definitely is!'

Xoria, the Sabre is not built by Outcasts. The Sabre is built in the Border Worlds. but not by outcasts. So if Xoria sanctioned someone for using BRETONIAN weapons on an effectively unlawful CIVILIAN ship, that Xoria has crossed the line in sanctioning.

The sabre is SOLD on 2 outcasts bases, 1 Bundsch, and 1 Hacker. Nowhere in the infocard does it say that the sabre is built by the outcasts. Unless this is another unwritten rule?

That is an example of what this line of thinking and ruling is already doing to this server.

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Seek fun and you shall find it. Seek stuff to Q_Q about and you'll find that, too. I choose to have fun.

[Koolmo]

Not to get off the topic of accusing people of things... I just read then, and I take it that anyone with a merc ID can only use civilian guns, and that my entire faction is restricted to not flying ships, not using anything but supernovas and missles, and won't be able to squawk any tag at all? We're just going to use the reddest ship we find, I guess. Now, this is a quote from someone who has also put some thought into this...


"Missiles and torp slots only! Red Catamarans for all!"

Now, think about that for a bit...

Edit: We also have a red capship, YeeHaw!

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I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

[ScornStar]

Fair isn't when everyone is treated the same.

I could argue that a man who had lost all of his possessions and was starving due to a fire caused by someone else should be shown more leniency for stealing bread as opposed to someone else who stole a similar loaf because they couldn't be bothered to take money from their account.

Fair depends on circumstances, in my own opinion, so kindly take the rhetoric elsewhere.

This is an example of the higher morale development deemed Post conventional. The man does something on the wrong side of the law for the right reasons.

Opposed to the man who does something, on the wrong side of the law for the wrong reasons.

Uffortunately not everyone will get this. All I can tell you if you dont get it is look up the hiearchy of morale development.

Blunt this is a simple concept but it is one that either someone gets or does not. In my opinion Xoria would hammer both men equally and in the end the man with the tragic curcumstances pays more. This rule demands that we hammer both these men the same, to run with this anology.

What we need is admin who are moralely developed and who can be troubled to take in all the details and measure them. Unfortunately I believe I also read something like 60% of the population seldom exceeds conventional morality untill they to suffer and learn some humility or reach advanced age. With age ussually comes a measure of suffereing.

As my grandmother told me on her death bed, "Getting old aint for wussies" Lets try and have a intelligent system with criteria that does not require human bias and is definable, and quantifiable.

I proposed it once but it seemed to be missed.

I propose. We drop ooRP as a term as Hyung Soong said.

A "reported" ship first gets a quick look over by admin. Then if it fails the basic look over it gets a "notice" placed in the hold.

The notice would read "you have 10 days to produce you RP for this ship/load out."

The requirements of said RP is this.

A) it must predate the "notice" as a published document on the Disco forums.

B) it must involve multiple players no less than 6

And that is it. This eleminates opinions from RP. And two players or one player with mutiple accounts from writeing in thier favorite ship with out cooperation from someone else of the community. This would continue to support teamwork and creativity. Thats just an outline.

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[Unit-sk855]

Noone has given a reason beyond "whah whah!"

Im going to do this with your own words.

Now from a PvP standpoint it has a larger impact but from an RP standpoint for a character it has negligible impact, especially when compared to the benefit of a server that has clarity and across the board fairness on the equipment issue.

I wouldn't. A separate group is even more likely to suffer from the brother in law effect than the admins.

It can when the "RP" is really just justification for oorp twinkiness.

And you get hundreds of one pages of "Twinky McMunchkin said "I've had enough of this I'm taking my ubership and joining the terrormongers!"

A win/win for everyone but the twinkies.

Can you explain please how the above is any form an argument based on anything other than, to use your terms, "Whah Whah" over being outclassed in a pvp fight? There are those of us here worried that our hard work in our stories and playing our roles is going to be for nothing, and you seem to found your points on who has the advantage in a PvP fight.

Now assuming and giving you the benefit of the doubt that you really did just miss all the fine examples and answering your questions of how a ship effects the character, let me answer it again, as well as a few other points you try to raise but miss.

I'll quote what i already said because it still applies.

First, how a ship is a character in reference to your example of buying a new car does not change who you are.

So your trying to say that the roleplay comes from the character and not the ship, but such an assertion goes both ways to justify or counter the proposed "policy" on oorp action. I know thats not your intention of the quote, but you cant justify a claim of the standard ships being important unless the non standard ships with backing are also justified as important.

To be more direct, substitute the word car with ship. Now add a bit to the ship, the ship was your grandfathers dream come true, his legacy. Your family heirloom and your family history, your father was born an IMG but times got tough when you were born and he turned unlawful when bills racked up. Now he is a junker and you followed in his footsteps with the grandfather hand me down spatial. Sure you have the money to sell it and buy a kith, a csv, or another junker related ship, but you've been flying in that spatial since you were born across sirius with your old man. Your memories, your roots, and your passion are in that ship. Its gotten you out of more hairy situations than you can imagine, but your gonna sell it for the new model?

Current policy, Backstory doesn't matter, its an IMG ship and if you get reported you lose.

That spatial is part of the characters backstory, his history, and his family legacy. Without those 3 things that character has nothing to base his sentiments and personality on those sentiments. The short version is, the backstory is history, history is part of character concept, character concept is development of character, and if the history and concept is developed with alongside a certain ship that ship is part of what makes that character that specific character. Whats the point of playing a junker that used to have granddad's spatial? Sure its the same person, but the family history and point of that character is gone. The story arc was to be fixing up, and loving that ship to death. Now its gone, so is the story arc and with i the character.

and now on this

Actually his point works for the admins pov better because:

A. Juni, Trent and King are still Juni, Trent and King no matter what ship they are in. The characters stay the same if you modify SP to put them in anything.

This underlines the trivial nature of the ship choice.

quoting myself again

The ships a character flies is part of the character. If it was not then it wouldnt matter what ship that character flew, and we could all fly what we wanted. The only thing that would matter would be the character in the ship, so as long as the character was an outcast he could fly a titan if he played his outcast role perfectly.

The ship matters because it defines a character. An RM flying a Wrath is a defenition of that RM and their choice of the wrath just as much as my spatial example Defines the junker flying the cross faction ship. The ship defines the character wether it is from their own faction, or another faction. I dont watch star trek, so my knowledge of terms may be off, but Kirk had a preferance for the enterprise, so he chose to fly that ship. Out of all the ships in that fleet, thats the one he wanted. Thats the model, the make, the year, and the class. To him the borg or klingy ships are probably nice, but not home. The ship is part of his character development, and without it there would be no Enterprise Captains log from kirk. There would be no long range exploratory vessel traveling alone in the cosmos to have a show about. To prove this, the shows variations are even named after the ships the shows take place on, and not the characters themselves.


Those points are a little bit back in the thread now, it moves fast. i'll jump to working on the new ones too...

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*Wilson shows off his ham sandwich* - Armory.003
*mark placed on Unit-sk855's forehead* - Head hitting the desk as of reading the above

[bluntpencil2001]

Scornstar's concept needs some work, but the basic idea is sound, if labour-intensive.

A good start, though.

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[tfmachad]

Mandalorians are BHG tagged. Using Outcast gear would be a no, especially with their lawful ID. An exception to 'RP doesn't allow different gear.'

...

Just a clarification. Mandalorians are BHG tagged, but Merc IDed. We had to come to a compromise there as there is no Mercenary tag and the Freelancer one is impractical to acquire (I alone have 7 Mandalorian ships). It's better for us as a faction to have a slightly ooRP tag (the BHG one) that somewhat reflects our RP status, than trying to keep everyone untagged. If we didn't fix and standardize one specific tag, soon we'd have Mandalorians flying Synth Foods, Gateway, Outcast, Blood Dragon, LSF and whatever other possible combinations of alignements. In our case, the Bounty Hunter tag doesn't reflect or suggest any association whatsoever with the Bounty Hunters Guild, it's just the closest, most practical thing we've got.

The Mandalorians aren't lawful, they are merely consistent to their select clients (including both the deemed "lawfuls" and "unlawfuls").

As for this thread, I have mixed feelings about it. I can relate with the admin's necessity to standardize things and I figure there's some overreaction about it, as some of the examples mentioned don't really infringe in the proposed rules. What I have in mind right now is that this may turn out to be a witch hunt at the first two months or so, with people reporting pretty much anything, even those that don't qualify to be, but well, in the long run it might as well be beneficial for the server. It's an impression really. I'll have to sleep over this to try and appreciate the implications.

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[Carme]

I havent finished catching up from page 9 when i left and got to middle of page 12, and saw these "Black and White" debates...

now this ANGERS me......

DEEPLY....


Here I shall now SHUT DOWN Akumabito and his Crapful "Black and White" here and now, and if he argues all his points will be hereby declared INVALID and he shall be ignored.



there you have it, a "BLACK AND WHITE" that has GREY in it!!!

END OF STORY.

Edit:* oh wait, I forgot... for that matter... it also has some BLUE and GREEN and BROWN wow this is a productive post see? :lol:

[Spear]

Heya folks, just to write a few words and I'll be on my way once again!
I'll agree with this, pretty much.
Your character really isn't dependent on the ship he flies, at least not permanently.
It's more like it's personality, speech, temper etc etc.
Sure, ship is important too, but not THAT much.

If you write an 'RP deal' that Outcasts can use BD Cats in exchange for Infernos, how is THAT supporting RP?
Can you explain me, please, the possibilities of this 'RP' and it's positive sides?
Or even better, explain that to a 2 week old member of this community who tried to fly a defender as a LN, until he was pwned by a Red catamaran in front of Manhattan, the ship he was NEVER supposed to see in Liberty. Ever.

How is it in 'RP' for Outcasts to freely fly trough Bretonia space. I understand there is a cease fire, but an OC dessie shouldn't be standing in front of freaking New London and chillin' with Brets with a tea cup.

I am actually in between here.
I don't want to see people forced to be ordinary, but I don't want people to write the damn stories so they pwn either.

For example, one real Corsair would never pick any other ship to fly over a Titan/Centurion/Decurion.
I tried the thing with a Sabre, of course only temporarily, but it failed, and I scrapped it with no hard feelings.
Fact is, you can't be an 'exceptional RP-er' if you are a Corsair flying a Viper because you'r RP is ok.
Your flying of Viper is the sole thing that lowers your RP, and you'r on 0 again, no matter how hard you try to actually find a reason or two to fly it.

I only know a very few people who actually got a lousier ship for RP reasons.
Only a very few.

Anyway, I think things need to change, that is for sure.

Factions should be forbidden to use any allied ships/weaponry because of RP deals.

As someone said : "Factions should set an example for RP to new people".
If they don't do it, no one will.
And with factions as they are now.. It's impossible.

Review all factions and their ship/weapon lists. That's a first step.
Of course, there can be an exception inside of the faction, but only like one, otherwise it's not an exception anymore.
Ivan Voronov is a good example for TBH's exception, since there are no others flying non-corsair ships.

All in all, things need to change drastically, and there I agree with Admins/Spear/Akumabito.
The way they need to change.. I don't know. But we should give it a shot.. Or two.

Bye bye!!!

I'm glad you chipped in Chopper as it seems I'm in a minority in this hottest I've ever seen thread! And I need some experienced back up, I dont usually agree with Akumabito but he's made a point I do agree with. One rule for the "in" people and another for the "others". Right now what I see is a lot of OORP ships and equipment mounted just becasue its good, not because it's within RP, and some are getting away with it while a new player eats a sanction. I'm not happy with this at all.

You want to mount Dragonfly turrets fly in Kusari, dont mount them because they belong to a friend of a friend or yours, it's a PVP disgrace.

Write your RP sure, but if you take one char from a faction and move it to another, you should lose that ship once it is destroyed in combat and replace it with a ship available to your new faction. This is not an attack on good RP'ers, it's a statement against RP PVP exploiters, and people do get away with it!

The Phantoms are a league apart in this scenario, the only admin sanctioned terroist ID faction, same with Doom's Prospector and Dreygons Monstar, all the rest need to align there ships and load out to within established parameters. Extreme OORP ships and load outs should be cleared by the Admins or not used at all.

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=LSF=

[Colonel Z.e.r.o.]

Dude the guy was born with a pink sock hanging out his ass. No need to ripp his arguments any further.

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Nathan's Log || The &quot;Real Story&quot; of Lenox Casper

[bluntpencil2001]

The Phantoms are a league apart in this scenario, the only admin sanctioned terroist ID faction, same with Doom's Prospector and Dreygons Monstar, all the rest need to align there ships and load out to within established parameters. Extreme OORP ships and load outs should be cleared by the Admins or not used at all.

The Phantoms are an NPC faction. They have Sabers. The base sells Osirises, OC Destroyers and Raven's Claws. Therefore, the Phantoms can only use those four ships. No bombers (MAYBE Falcatas. Maybe.), no other fighters. Only guns sold on the Revenant.

Interestingly enough, the Osiris, and the RC, both sold on the Revenant, are based off of 'I stole it' stories, with Dark Star betraying the LSF, unless I'm mistaken.

If the Phantoms are allowed their special stuff (which they should be), so should everyone else, provided that they aren't taking the piss.

The way things worked before is that so-called ooRP gear needed consent. See: Fantasia etc.

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