Player input on handling Special RP characters

[Drake]

Discovery is a community, not a football game. People 'discuss differing opinions' with the Admins because decisions affect the community as a whole, not just one PvP encounter (closest example to a ref's call in a football game). Whether it's a major new or modified rules (such as this one), or an Admin stating previously unknown rule somewhere in some thread (which has happened), or a one-time example of someone getting sanction for something that hasn't been sanctioned in the past (which has also happened), it affects the whole community, and therefor needs to be discussed and clarified... And if it really is 'official', then it needs to be codified.

But that's getting a bit off topic. I think the majority of people have come to the conclusion that a new forum for unusual ship/loadout requests needs to be made, where people can post their requests and have them critiqued by the community before a final Admin decision is made on the character. Something like the current faction approval process.

And as several people have already mentioned, such a forum needs all the previously OK'd odd ships/loadouts posted as examples, and it needs a reasonably clear set of basic guidelines.

And decisions shouldn't be based on good stories, it should be based on plausibility and the play history of the person making the request. That's just my opinion, but I think it's a good one.

[Orin]

The only way to be fair about it is to make sure there is at least one of everything available to each factions.

In otherwords one battleship, one vhf, one sheildbuster gun, one endgame torpedo, etc etc.

Off topic and no.

Space politics aren't fair. If they were, I wouldn't have a ton of interest in Freelancer. A few points to counter your claim that factions with lesser assets do not have player base.

Xenos
Golden Crysanthemums
Farmers Alliance
Synth Foods (Ahem)
Much more...

If everyone had one of everything, there would be no balance of power. Now I know the Unioneers (I believe that's your character) don't have a large player base, but that's just one example. And either way, I reiterate...

Space politics aren't fair.

[Unit-sk855]

Well, plausibility is directly related to how good a story is. The "plausibility" of some of the more fantastical stories, including freelancer itself, is pretty thin but the stories are what make them agreeable.

So i think that plausibility is less dependant on its own, but i think when paired with if it makes sense for the flow of the servers development it becomes more important.

Plausibility would kill off alot of the fantasy that this science based fantasy provides o.0 I could fix my personal story to maintain it with plausibility, but others would be....

Well, what would happen to phantom and AW backstory? CR, Cylons, that one guy whose name escapes me but story does not... the one with the fear emanation ability. There was a corsair RPing the ability to telepathically control Wild, not the ships the infested humans. Lets see, there are a couple cardimine mutations, some genetic augmentation, some body swapping *other than me* and some people obtaining some plastic surgury to add animal like features, fox ears and a tail i think it was... its been a while.

Or how about all the lower end teenage characters flying around commanding their own ships? I know we have a couple of those. We have alot of implausible things, but they are generally given with great stories that make them plausible.

So... yea plausibility is a factor but, i think the main point should still be if its plausibility will actually harm anyone elses roleplay when thinking of terms of plausibility.

Example, a pureblood vampire appearing in freelancer exactly like a mythological vampire. Not really a way to explain that. it is both implausible and i'm sure many agree it should not exist and its existence would be a hindrance to RP. Suspension of disbelief breaching and all that.

However, change the story to vampire like explained via an alien parasite encountered in the water of one of the many planets attempting to have its resources exploited by the citizens of sirus. The parasite could cause some vampire like symptoms and ingestion of blood could be what keeps the symptoms at bay. The player sets up the story arc to be restrained and not intrude on anyone else's territory, and since it makes some sense albeit not plausible sense it shouldn't be a problem to let it see its course.

Also note that the above example shows how equipment is not the only worry with regulation of rp.

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*Wilson shows off his ham sandwich* - Armory.003
*mark placed on Unit-sk855's forehead* - Head hitting the desk as of reading the above

[bluntpencil2001]

I'm with the admin team.
And Red Cancer already posted it.
There are alot of fariy tales only posted with the purpose to bypass the rules.

My advice is: DO NOT AGRUE WITH THE REFEREE!

:P

Referees enforce rules.

This isn't about enforcing, but the creation of a new rule. Something entirely different, no?

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[ScornStar]

I'm sorry, but I am against an admin approval process. Due to personal experience where I waited 2 months for a response for a submitted (and posted on admin section, according to the admin to who I gave the RP story) but not a single admin ever contacted me to say a no, or a yes. The story was not that long, thus discarding the theory that the story was too long to read. I even contacted one of the admin about it, he kept ignoring my request . . .

Unless there is a some admins (or players that were considered to become admins in the original admin recruiting period) that will really be ready to be dedicated to this, it will get a no from me

/Signed. This is my biggest gripe with the admin approval process. It will take for ever and then will have a rushed reason to shoot it down with little substince. For example, my faction was unable to upload schematics of a Liberty Assault battle criuser after a small scale event with more than 8 people on two occations on in which the schematics were voluntarily uploaded to us and the only answer I was given was that "It would make a bad example" What the hell does that mean?

If there is RP done with many (more than a half dozen) then it is RP. And if the persons involved bring it to admins attention, then I think it should be cleared. Yes some people will complain, some new folk will try and copy the set ups. BUT, thats what admin is here to sort out, those folks, not the RPers for the non RPers. This is the RPers server, so dont punish or prune RP.

So, if we can be assured that admin will be one the ball or a statute of limitations that automatically makes a "YES" if not responded to, then I would support it. Reason for a auto yes, I know this one is probally a head scracher. Most flok instantly and instinctively go to the auto "NO". I say if admin cant be troubled to give a solid no with solid reason in a limited time then its not such a detriment to put a halt on peoples RP.

After all two weeks and the political and trade landscape of Surius can change. Two real life weeks is like 50 years in game time for all that happens. So, lets make it prompt, or admin stand aside and let us RP.

Thanks.

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Eat Babies!!!!!!!!!!

Join our cause for a baby free world.

Harvester diplomacy

[Orin]

Referees enforce rules.

This isn't about enforcing, but the creation of a new rule. Something entirely different, no?

Meh, bad example then.

My bad.:$

[Agmen of Eladesor]

What the heck - everyone else has posted here, I may as well.

Shahadett made a great post about the importance of the ship - wonderful post.

However - straight from Wikipedia about Role Playing...

"In roleplaying, participants adopt and act out the role of characters, or parts, that may have personalities, motivations, and backgrounds different from their own. Roleplaying, also known as RP to some, is like being in an improvisational drama or free-form theater, in which the participants are the actors who are playing parts, and the audience.

People use the phrase "role-playing" in at least three distinct ways:

to refer to the playing of roles generally such as in a theater, or educational setting;
to refer to a wide range of games including computer role-playing games, play-by-mail games and more;
or to refer specifically to role-playing games."

And from a wiki site that most of us should already know...

"Freelancer Discovery is a Role Playing Server and as such everyone is expected to remain in character for the majority of their time on the server."

Okay, now there are comments in the forum about potentially sanctioning players in-game for OOC stuff - so it follows that RP'ing in the forums is how we set up the background for our characters.

My main character (the one with over 108 hours on him) on the server shares the same name as the first AD&D character that I played back in 1979. (Yes, I'm that old.) I know his personality - I RP'd with him for 8 years. Most of my other characters on here share my old AD&D characters names, because I already know their personalities. The thing for me is that Carl (me) may know something - but Agmen in game may not know it, and that's how I play it.

Now - regarding backstories and such.

In order to give him some history on the server, I made a few stories and posted them online. When I got interested in joining a faction, I did not do so with him - it would've been out of character for him to do so. So I created a character that could fly multiple ships, and at the same time, be in line with the faction and group I was joining, because it would've bene OOC for Agmen to do so.

If a character has been on the server for a long time, you're bound to have an interesting set of tags available, due to your rep. For example, Agmen has 108 hours of play, and is fully green - not just friendly, but TOTALLY green with:

The Order
Bounty Hunters Guild
Liberty Navy
LSF
Liberty Police
Republican Shipping
Hogosha
Dauman
Corsairs
Kruger
Universal
Bretonia Police
Rhineland Police
Bowex
ALG
Farmers
Cryers
Rhineland Military
DSE
BMM
Gateway Shipping
Orbital Spa
Synth Foods
Gaians

(Off topic - has anyone else ever noticed how adjusting rep can be a real pain?)

Note that I've never paid a bribe to anyone to get my reputation increased, either. This is just what naturally happens when you fly around, kill a lot of Red Hessians, LWB, and other assorted npc's that attack you. I have done a few missions - but not that many. (12 total, and that was mostly when I was a newbie, just to get some money.)

One thing to keep in mind with our ships is this - while they are an extension of our personality, they can and do change as circumstances and money permit. This also means that you're going to have encounters and battles with various npc's, and guess what? Sometimes you're going to capture a weapon that's better than what you actually have equipped. If your in-game character RP could use it - then you're going to use it, no matter where it came from, because that weapon could increase your chance of survival IF THIS WERE THE REAL WORLD.

I ran caps on that last, because that's how you should RP things. If you're a pilot in the Bretonian Navy, then you're going to have the weapons and ships available. If you're a Cosair - and you fight against the Bretonians all the time, chances are there's been a time or two you could've captured a Templar or Crusader, so you MAY have that ship in a hanger somewhere. Would that be your primary ship? No - that's why my S/D pilot has a selection of ships that he flies. (3 'different' characters on the server, same pilot for all 3 ships, though.)

<That's why the Enterprise was such an important ship to Star Trek, with 7 DIFFERENT ships going by that name, commanded by Jonathon Archer, James Kirk, John Harriman, Rachel Garret, and Jean Luc Picard. In real life, there've been TWENTY ships in the Royal and US Navy named Enterprise. However - the Enterprise in Star Trek is part of the military - so if you wanted to fly something like that (and I did in an old FL mod) - you'd have to be part of a military. If you were playing someone like Harry Mudd - well, you could be in whatever ship you happened to find - which is why your CHOICE of character you're playing is as important, if not more so than your ship.>

You could RP a WONDERFUL story where the Corsairs have a captured Crusader, apparently fighting a Corsair ship near a JH, and then suddenly have both ships turn on the attacking forces. Has anyone ever heard of a Q-ship? It looks and acts like a freighter - and has the weaponry of a destroyer or light cruiser, just hidden? (That'd be my suggestion for a new ship for the next mod, by the way.) The point being - the rules of the game should be the mechanics - not the be all, end all. Sure, there's a DM, moderator, or admin to make a final ruling when something happens.

With freelancers and any character that's not officially a part of a faction, if they've got enough time in game that they could've picked something up, then it's possible that they did so in character. Doesn't mean that they can freely break Bretonian law by flying around in a Kusari ship - those kinds of things are the laws ON the server - whereas someone who has managed to (legitimately) pick up Corsair and Hessian weapons could equip them on his ship if he chose to do so, because he's obeying the law OF the server - which is Role Playing.

(I was running an escort mission as a freelancer for a freighter making the run with engine components from New Berlin to Cambridge. We were attacked by Hessians in Omega 7, and I destroyed one of the fighters. A gun came off of it and I tractored it in. Later we were attacked in Omega 3 by Corsairs, and I picked up a gun from that debris field as well. Both of these guns are better than what I have on my Barracuda - and since I'm NOT a member of a faction - I'm going to equip them. = Just as an example of something a person could be thinking as they're coming up.)

That's, of course, for the unaffiliated. As a member of the S/D, my ships are going to be equipped with what the S/D says they can - just as an example. Welcome to factions and following orders.

I think one of the problems we run into on here is when an experienced player wants to start a new character, and does a money transfer. I have no problems with money transfers per se. They're a great thing. But I think that if your character is going to start carrying weapons that don't match, they better have more than 5 minutes of playing time. Make your in game time match your RP story. (In a previous story, someone mentioned a Kusari pilot going to Liberty to be with his dying mother. In a military, that wouldn't happen that way - said pilot would be flying commercial.)

Since our forums are in intrinsic part of the in-game RP - for example, check out the S/D Tales of the Doghouse, to give you some idea of how we've done things, like this report I made - you'll see why sometimes we don't say much in-game.

I'm not saying that you write a story to justify why you've got an odd-ball ship. I AM saying that your story and the length of time your character has been in play had better match up IF you have an oddball ship.

Sorry if I rambled on a bit here - I don't get to the rest of the forums much because, well, I'm having too much fun PLAYING the game.

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Oh god... The end of days... Agmen agreed with me.

[Orin]

Excellent post, Carl.

Just one thing I want to say. As for flying through Sirius, getting ambushed by Pirates, blowing off a weapon or two, and saying "Hey, this weapon is better than mine. I'll equip it.". I'm all for that, especially with a Freelancer. But. And that's a big but. We have too many people who are indeed playing with PvP in mind over RP. If "ooRP" weaponry isn't enforced right you will see Avengers/Sabres/Templars/Whatever flying with dual tizzies and the rest Krakens. PvP will grow from that, and that's a bad thing. If everyone played like you are saying, that would totally work. But not everyone is playing with RP in mind over PvP. Therefore, like it or not, there has to be strict equipment rules. The sub-forum for "ooRP" gear and ships is all we can hope to get.

(In a previous story, someone mentioned a Kusari pilot going to Liberty to be with his dying mother. In a military, that wouldn't happen that way - said pilot would be flying commercial.)

That was me, and was just an early example of how "ooRP" ship choice can compliment RP. The Kusarian pilot ended up in the Rogues in a Chimaera. I didn't write it to be perfectly plausible. Just an example.

Probably just a misunderstanding though, so don't worry about it.

[n00bl3t]

King has a good idea about a committee.But,to keep things somewhat close to fair,it should be composed of 3 groups,with an odd number of people,so deadlocks do not occure.

1.Admins
2.Faction leaders
3.Leading Indies

That way,all 3 groups have a voice in this.

There should also be an equal number of each group. Discuss names?

If there was a committee system, the picking should be as serious as the admin selection criteria. This way, the selected/elected one, couldn't be considered as biased, if they were too, then the whole admin team would be biased

a subforum trial is ok - if the player receives a clear reasoning for a decision made. - when i was denied, i d like to get a detailed analysis about the reasons - and not a "you re ooRP, live with it".

furthermore, it needs a deadline. - i remember faction approval requests that were dead and dusty when they were finally revisioned. - at that time, the founder of the might-be faction sometimes had already left disco for good.

/signed.

It seems people like the idea of a comittee, if exceptional RP is allowed. I'd prefer posts to be anonymous, but Igiss said he can't do it so that is that. I suppose a fair group of people willing to donate their time will be needed for the committee.

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Anything I say is not intended as offensive, and to try and deliberately misinterpret it as such would be an attempt at trolling via misrepresentation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's localised bias. They're not intelligent enough to form a conspiracy.

[Orin]

I don't want it all to fall on admins. I've said that before. In the same exact way, I don't want it all to fall on a comittee. I fully stand by a sub-forum.

Comittee members can influence eachother and be biased (No matter what we may say, we're all human. Bias happens whether we like it or not. No one's perfect.), and that might affect some calls. That said, I still think a comittee would work pretty well, just not a well as a sub-forum.

Comittee consists of a few to decide.

Community as whole consists of many more.

The chances of swayed opinions is lessened by the sub-forum and it results in less work and stress. Comittee members could very well get massively swamped by new RP justifications. And what's this? They all have to vote in order for it to be fair. What if someone gets sick? What if someone goes MIA for a week? These things happen, and results will be seriously delayed. Further reason a sub-forum would be prefereable.

Think about it deeply, admin team.