' Wrote:We should be able to remain in the system, but we should not be able to re-engage that player. If that player engages you first, you can fight back in defense or flee again, but unless you die you shouldnt need to leave the system.
Then there is no value in having fights at all. For example, let's say there's a Hacker Gunship pirating in New York. The lawfuls gang up and kill the pirate. The pirate respawns and then continues pirating until the lawfuls manage to kill him again. Believe me when I tell you that the chance of being killed repeatedly is not in itself enough to make some people leave a system (or use a different character for awhile). As a pirate, I've had traders who will repeatedly spawn out of a base only to be pirated and then atomised within 10 seconds for not paying. 15 times over. (Before anyone asks, it was one of our faction's bases the person was docked in so we weren't OORP for waiting outside it). Essentially if we remove the 'leave system' rule then players will have to spend all day killing the one idiot who won't take the hint and leave. I do agree that the 'flee with thrusters vs flee with cruise' needs to be sorted out, as it is too easy for disruptive people to game.
No longer active online due to a dwindling amount of non-PvP (trading, pirating, mining, etc.) fun in the new version.
I don't see what is considered fleeing (has to leave system) when you use Thrusters. In mass attacks where odds are against me I use this tactic to survive. I don't engage cruise, I just trust away from BS. And I should have to leave the system??? wait? What?
Quote:5.6 If a player engages cruise engine or docks during a PvP fight, this player is considered fleeing. The fleeing player must leave and may not re-enter the system where the fight took place with any of the characters on his/her account(s) while the enemy (player or players involved in the fight) remains in the system, but no more than 4 hours.
However, the fleeing player can re-engage at will if chased.
I don't see anything about thrusters. If I trust out of the battle, and enemies stop following me, the battle is over and I can dock and come back, Since I never engaged cruise engines DURING the battle.
PS: I consider the battle over when enemies are at more than 15k and aren'T really chasing anymore
Yes, all very good points. I think I understand now.
Having the "leave system" rule NOT in effect would cause a million tiny loopholes, and a lot of confusion, shown through some of your examples.
However, I'd have to agree with Kingvaillant- it doesn't say anything about thrustering out of a battle. That's different from cruising, and if the person is not good enough to chase you, you have escaped, and maybe could come back?
I heard there was a sanction for this a while back, haven't looked it up yet, but maybe there's a rule clarification in there.
the only problem with the rule is that its unclear. - cruising in a fight means YOU loose.
thrusting does not necessarily mean to retreat. - and it is still not clear how far a ship can thrust away to be considered fleeing, and THAT is a problem. - cause, recent sanctions said - that being the first that engages crusie means to have lost. - no where it was mentioned that chasing was allowed after someone thrusting away. - and no one knows for sure when its allowed. - 1k? 5k? 10k? 15k? - no admin ever clarified that.
common sense? - thats not working there... for some, chasing at 5k is common sense, for others its 10k+ ....
I believe Kane's quote was along the lines of "if you cruise, thrust, or bloody swim your way from the fight, you lost, leave system". While this covers virtually any loophole that pvp-whores could abuse, it isn't perfect, and a few factions (Xenos, Bundschuh, sometimes Rogues, and to some extent GC) rely heavily on guerrilla raids, hit-and-run that isn't feasible in the current rule set. If someone can come up with a rule to substitute for that one that A) keeps the pvp-whores under wraps, B) covers the various things we forum-goers all sort of know about but aren't explicitly forbidden, and, if possible, C) allows for guerrilla attacks (on home turf at least) in a way that is both in RP, not abusable, and not horribly un-fun to deal with, then you will get a cake.
EDIT: As for the thrust fleeing distance, it is somewhere between 4.2k and 10k. 4.2k is minimum because (if I recall correctly) the Nova Torpedo can get flung that far if used properly, so closer than that is still in weapons range. If the Nova example isn't correct, then the next biggest minimum fleeing range would be 3.5k, the range on a Hornet (I think). 10k has been confirmed as 'yes, if you are more than 10k away then it is ok to cruise' but just where the line in the middle is has been left to interpretation. I would feel safe from sanction after 5k in a fighter/bomber/GB fight, and 7k in a heavy cap fight (Eppy tells me that BB duels start around 6k, so I'd think that 1k over the range where you start acting like in a fight would be about right), but if it is written in stone then there will be some silly sanctions and pvp-abusers/rule-quoters will have a field day. I'd like it a little more clear, but I don't think there needs to be a specific range spelled out. Gives the admins some room to let people following the spirit of the rule off the hook, rather than catch them on mindless technicalities- and vice versa, which is probably even more important.
I have a question along the same lines as well maybe one of you old wise masters of Discovery can answer.
If the enemy thrusts away from me in the fight, 1k, 3k, 5k, 7k away, gee willy bonkers!!! he's almost gone!
When can engage cruise to pursuit, give chase, hunt him down? Is there a distance in the rules for i have not found one.
' Wrote:I have a question along the same lines as well maybe one of you old wise masters of Discovery can answer.
If the enemy thrusts away from me in the fight, 1k, 3k, 5k, 7k away, gee willy bonkers!!! he's almost gone!
When can engage cruise to pursuit, give chase, hunt him down? Is there a distance in the rules for i have not found one.
That's precisely the problem. There isn't a specified distance. Some say 5k, some 10k, some "when outside of scanners range" (14k?). Want to be on the safe side? Just cruise if your target cruises first. Otherwise, stick to thrusters if you want to pursue them. If they outrun you, too bad, that's one of the advantages of fighters against capitals. If you cruise, you lose. (Oh, nice! It rhymes).
well.. it has been written in some sanctions - something the lines of "crusing at ANY POINT in a fight is not allowed" that would basicly include chasing, too - at any rate that the chased one has not engaged cruise himself.
of course - not being allowed to cruise does not mean to loose a fight. - if someone thrusts away out of scanner range, he must leave the system ( a lot of players, factioned and non-factioned DO have some problems with that indeed ) - i have seen all sort of players reluctant to leave the system. many think its enough not to engage anymore... especially when the system they retreat from is the focus of things at that time and leaving it means to miss everything there.
I think all of Discovery's rules could probably do with a revision/update, but I don't have the time or energy to devote to such a project at this time. Either way, it seems clear that many rules need an overhaul. I would go so far as to say if you leave selectable range (which is 10k, after which point you are no longer able to select your opponent), then you are out of the fight.
if you stand to that statement semi officially - we can spread the word about 10k - at least its a referrence. but it also means that any cruise below 10k will be sanctionable as re-engagement.
![[Image: f_48123637838m_812390c.png]](http://img19.picoodle.com/img/img19/3/3/6/olixtreme/f_48123637838m_812390c.png)
![[Image: 1z6y3k6.png]](http://i28.tinypic.com/1z6y3k6.png)
![[Image: just_a_signature_by_sjrarj-d63yjsx.png]](https://img00.deviantart.net/ca73/i/2013/123/e/a/just_a_signature_by_sjrarj-d63yjsx.png)
![[Image: SCRAgenderheuristics.png]](http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd343/sovfalcon/SCRAgenderheuristics.png)
![[Image: singnature02.jpg]](http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee197/tfmachad/singnature02.jpg)
![[Image: AiTakedaSignature.jpg]](http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh185/Kuraine/AiTakedaSignature.jpg)