Cruisers

[Prysin]

We all say cruisers need a buff. We all KNOW they need a buff, but cruisers are a touchy ship-type.

Their strenght, speed, size and firepower is tremendous, most of them have a thruster, making it harder to escape this machine of overwhelming death.

The crusiers roles are:
- Defending capital ships from other capital ships and bombers.
- Functioning as a long range artillery against other Battleships
- Functioning as heavy support fire against bombers

Some cruisers like the Liberty Siege Cruiser, Rheinland cruiser, Corsair cruiser, kusari destroyer and Hessian Cruiser are fearful ships already. Their armed to the teeth and beyond, their effective even with a less experienced pilot.
Yet cruisers has issues. These are maybe "minor" but they are very fatal to this class.

The issue with cruisers is:
Armour
Shield
Energy


Issue #1:
- Armour

Average cruiser armour is around 300k, on the other hand, average battleship armour is around 900k, thats 3 times as strong.
But why wouldn't the battleship be stronger, well, its supposed to be that way, but this means cruisers is at a 1/3 ratio in armour, They can hardly stand 3 seconds of battleshipfire to their hull without any armour upgrade. That goes for even the heavy cruisers.

Just increasing the average cruisers armour from 300 000 to 350 000 would make this class much stronger and worthwhile to use.

Issue#2:
- Shield

The cruiser shield is rated to 250 000 points. This is a fairly strong shield, but against this is not the case.
As a comparison of shields i will compare the damage of the 3 capital classes strongest guns on each others shields:

Gunboat shield: 140 000
Cruiser Light Trebuchet/Mortar: 85 000/ 75 000

That is about 55-65% of the shield

now lets look at cruisers vs battleship

Cruiser shield: 250 000
Battleship Mortar/Trebuchet: 182 000/190 000
Battleship Heavy mortar/trebuchet: 340 000/ 350 000

Thats roughly 80-150% of the shield....

This is a big problem. Thus cruisers should of all things get a shield buff to atleast 300 000. This might cause an imbalance for battleships, so the Battleship Shield should get a buff to 500 000 (just 40k). NOW we have done a big improvement to their survivability.

Issue#3:
- Energy

Lowest energy for cruisers is 1 400 000 (1.4m) energy. One missile/Light Mortar drains 1 000 000 (1m) energy. Now, some missiles drains as much as 1 650 000 (1.65m) energy. Though the average cruiser has 1.8m energy, some has 2.25m energy, those are the heavy cruisers. The issue is that many of the heavy cruisers ain't that much slower then the mediumght ones. The agility is not enough for a light cruiser to beat a heavy cruiser without getting a serious beating while trying.

In comparison, the average battleship can in comparison fire 3 mortars/ 4 missils before its core is depleted.

The average cruiser core should be raised to 2.25m, then rather raise the heavy ones to the current "battlecruiser" level, wich is 3.6m then raise battlecruisers to 4.8m (so they can fire a heavy trebuchet).

Now, there is no need for new weapons, but cruisers need durability. They can simply not last, in close combat. And even at 3k+ range, missiles/mortars will eat them alive.

Cruisers damage is PERFECT. Its balanced up against gunboats/fighters, and its not so overkill that they can rival the battleships. Yet their durability is that of an heavy armoured gunboat on steroids. They need a buff so they can stand the fire from capitals AND bombers long enough to do something.

Cruisers issue is: 2 bombers rape them with same ease as they rape a gunboat.
1 gunboat can rape them with ease at point blank range
1 battleship will rape them if they get within 2000m

another cruiser is the only oponent, but cruisers arent balanced against themselves. because cruiser on cruiser, their just overpowered and kills each other in an instant. Due to the cruisers agility, any changes to it must be carefully done. because their already one of the best anti-bomber/gunboat crafts around if used right. Their thruster and agility can make them, in the hands of a skilled pilot, dodge snacs at just 2-400m range. Their firepower can damage a battleship, their speed can rival a gunboat, their durability can only be rivaled by that of the battleships and gunboats. Yet, they are far from being justified. Their power is not even meant for close combat situations, Their shields is just as easy to bring down as a gunboats (you can solo a crusier with just snac if your a decent bomber pilot) for a pair of bombers. And once that shield is down, their but a pile of metal.

Their MEANT to be a bomber/gunboat/capital defence for the battleships, but all they currently are is a way to get some b/b when your low on health

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DHC Discord

[schlurbi]

Uhm. You forgot the most important Issue. I call that Issue #0. Spam. You make them stronger? Makes surviving in Liberty even harder.

I say restrict every Cruiser and Battleship. Then buff them.

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"Who is it doing this synthetic type of alpha beta psychedelic funkin'?"

[n00bl3t]

The crusiers roles are:
- Defending capital ships from other capital ships and bombers.
- Functioning as heavy support fire against bombers

What?

Seriously though, as a person who has the biggest cruiser collection on this server, I can say one thing, I am not sure.

I am not sure whether cruisers need more armour.

I am not sure whether cruisers need more shielding.

I am not sure whether cruisers need more power.

But, I do know one thing about them. They need better damage against fighter-class ships.

Edit: I think I will pre-empt, "not this thread again", since the restriction squad has arrived already.

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Anything I say is not intended as offensive, and to try and deliberately misinterpret it as such would be an attempt at trolling via misrepresentation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's localised bias. They're not intelligent enough to form a conspiracy.

[Jinx]

cruisers have the role of providing long range support fire ( please notice the term "support" )

that means - they are PART of a WHOLE. - but hardly ever all alone, cause they are very specialized. ( in a sense - like bombers are supposed to be )

cruisers can do that with their long range weaponry - a range longer than any other shipclass in the entire game.


the only capital warship that is meant to activly fight bombers are gunboats - cruisers - being long range vessels - are actually meant to be vulnerable to bombers ( as bombers are the only anti-cap ships that can break through the lines - and hit them ( think of cruisers=archers, bombers=cavalery ) )

battleships are only meant to passivly defend against bombers ( unless they give up most of their anti-cap ability )

cruisers do not need a buff - we might need to tweak the game mechanics ( meaning long range missiles doing the damage they are supposed to do ) but cruisers themselves are not in need of improvements.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Prysin]

actually.

i flew a storta for a long time, a LOOOOONG time. I loved that ship, and if anything pisses me off its the fact that even the weakest "heavy" gun of a BS is in comparison WAY more destructive to a cruiser shield then a LM/LT is to a gunboat shield.

YES! what most crusiers should have is the option for a secondary gun, outcasts have their Destroyer turrets, which is purely badass with their refire, range, speed and damage.

MY main issue with cruisers is: they dont like firepower if used right, THEY LACK DURABILITY.

I can solo a gunboat in a bomber using only snac. I CAN DO THE SAME TO A CRUISER. Now were is the logic? cruisers are the hybrid of gunboats and battleships. Their meant to fight bombers, gunboats and fighters aswell as capitals.

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DHC Discord

[Jinx]

what bombers do to capital warships is another issue...

but cruisers are not meant to fight bombers - as stated before. they are meant to be heavy support vessels vor a fleet.

a cruiser is durable - and able to destroy any gunboat much easier than a bomber. while a bomber "can" destroy a gunboat - a lower skilled cruiser can do it faster, easier and more efficiently.

a bomber can destroy a gunboat - but its not the easiest thing to do ( both of equal skill provided ) - a bomber can much easier destroy a cruiser - and it can not destroy a battleship all on its own, simply because it would be unfair, utterly stupid - and cause thankfully we still have regenerative s hields.


edit:

let me list it up again


- battleships are strong against other battleships - and can defend against almost everything BUT cruisers ( if the cruiser keeps a distance - it is UNTOUCHABLE by a battleship )

- battlecruisers are strong against battleships and cruisers, a little weaker against gunboats and weaker against bombers

- cruisers are strong against gunboats and battleships ( but need different tactics for both tasks ) - and are weak against bombers and even fighters ( inferno fighter )

- gunboats are strong agains bombers and fighters

- bombers are good against capital warships and weak against strike craft

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Montezuma/Kukulcan]

Jinx, i hate to say this, but you are completely wrong (at least in most of the fights i have seen), a Cruiser is completely incapable of taking down a Gunboat in a group fight if the GB decides to dodge its fire, they are agile enough to evade 80% of the Cruisers fire, and the 20% that does get through will barely dent its sheild. On the other hand, 2 Gunboats will obliterate any Cruiser, even single Gunboats can take down Cruisers (i for one have beaten one of the most skilled Bullhead pilots i know of, in an Imperator), as they are simply incapable of doing the dammage needed to hurt the Gunboats in the short space of time they have a clear shot on them.

So if anything, Cruisers dont need an armour buff, their weapons need a dammage buff, so that the 20% of shots that hit the Gunboat are enough to actually dammage it.

Though in relation to cap fights, i would say Cruisers are just about fine, the work well as artillery platforms, for example, 2 Threshers with pulse cannons can take down a Battleship shield before the Battleship ever has a chance to hit one of them, and i believe that is how it should be.

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[atlantis2112]

This thread again?

Fffffff.

Every three days there's a new topic in this forum called "Bombers" or "Cruisers" or "Battleships"

I think they're in a good niche right now..

[Jinx]

not long ago - mjolnir ( admittedly he is a good pvper ) - had a thread going - where he made players in gunboats attack him in a cruiser.

from what i know... not a single gunboat defeated him.

off of all the gunboats - the nomad gunboat is the strongest - i had no trouble taking it down in a BHG destroyer ( one of the weakest destroyers - dps wise - but a rather small target of course - however the whole pvp occured at point blank range, where the smaller size of the destroyer wouldn t be any advantage, nor its long range weaponry - it simply outdamaged the nomad GB )

yes - things are different when its for example - a liberty siege cruiser vs. a BHG gunship / kusari GB.

but it is often asked of us to look at the average player rather than the ace.

the average gunboat player will not take down the average cruiser player.... i am convinced about that.




i have made tests of cruisers vs. gunboats :
- LABC vs. rogue GB
- bret destroyer vs. kusari GB
- fearless vs. nomad GB
- BHG destroyer vs. nomad GB
- BHG destroyer vs. corsair GB
- kusari destroyer vs. tridente

the destroyer always won. ( these tests were conducted long long ago though - beta of 4.85 )

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Prysin]

then ask a GB pilot with skill a BIT above average and you'll see that even a good cruiser captain will be quite helpless. Its a matter of using their ships right

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DHC Discord