Destroying the enemy when you wont suffer damage is not a waste of resources.
Only entering fights where you have a chance of losing is the best way to waste reources.
Why is it a waste of resources when he does it, but not when you do it?
The RP justification is and alibi-argument for keeping fair play, always has been.
Cap abuse is not about waste of resources in RP, its about fair play.
Your attempts to talk yourself out of it now are rather ridiculous.
Now we are arguing perceptions of what is waste of resources and what is not. You see it one way, the LN sees it in another way, and finally the Corsair sees it in a third way, take it up with them if you have a problem.
I don't know if it's an alibi-argument but I perceive it as an Role-Play argument and character-related argument. I always play from my character's perspective. As I told you, I don't give a rats ass about fair-play. In my opinion we should all just overpower our enemies since it's war. And we shouldn't be that friendly towards each other as characters either. But if I'm instructed as my character, to order these capital ships to not attack under certain circumstances, I will follow them to the letter.
I do not attempt to talk myself out of it. If this would have been the case then surely I wouldn't have mentioned anything about my Corsair Capital ship would I? Why would I do that and risk getting into this argument? It makes no sense at all.
We could talk about why its not a waste of resources when you do what he does, which you are trying to avoid.
Or if you prefer we could talk about your obsession with calling everyone Karlotta.
I love calling people Karlotta. Just this other day, I called my mom Karlotta. I'm in such an obsessive state, I need a psychologist don't you agree?
If that is Joe's argument then that is Joe's argument. This is my argument. Isn't it wonderful how people can have different perceptions over the same matter? It makes me so happy. : )))))
' Wrote:I don't know about you guys, but I'd much rather discuss the points that Vlko, I and every other super-secret conspiracy plotter came up with.
In Jameson Outcasts, derailing derails you!
Yes you are right, my apologies for derailing. I got caught up in my obsessiveness with Karlotta. However, I did manage to discuss the original topic in almost all of my posts, perhaps in a more specific state tho'. Apologies once again, discussion may continue! I have said my stuff anyways.
I didn't sign up to be the one judging who should be allowed or not to get a capital ship, it's not in my power to say "hey, you are a good/bad RPer", there's not a parameter that I can use for this, so this would be up just to my judgement... and hell if my judgement is any good.
I change my mind as I change of underware, maybe even more often (Just a note: I Change my underware everyday), what I see "Good" today might be bad tomorrow. I don't think I'm capable of being a judge for EVERYONE who wants a capital ship, I can't be the judge of your RP, I can manage the KNF, but the whole server? No thanks.
It's not just a matter of the time that this would take from anyone, faction leaders or admins, see it yourself, how many caps are out there? how many are created per day? And you expect a bunch of people to see through every single one of those applications? The SRP thread was closed because of the ammount of applications (I believe that was the reason), imagine what would happen with this...
On another note, In the KNF we have a system to evaluate people, and reward them accordly to their actions in game, action reports, etc. With time, that people get into a position where they can have access to Capital ships. Now these people worked a lot to have the chance of flying a capital, but in this system, that wouldn't be enough "Q:Why do you want a capital ship? A: Because I have been on the faction for over a year. R: Denied"
I'd hate if that happens.
To add one more thing, just as I don't think I'm capable of judging what's good RP or not, I don't think the other faction leaders can either.
Now, beyond paper work, lolwut effect:
The lolwut effect won't disappear. They will just move to the next Free ship, Gunboats (Because I hope you don't want to regulate EVERY gunboat), and gunboats can be a pain in the exact same way a Destroyer is, or a battleship.
Take the OC raids in Gamma, instead of 7 expensive dreads attacking crete, you will have 20 cheaper gunboats, nothing close to a better scenario.
And even if you regulate gunboats, people will move to the next ship, bombers, a bomber can ruin your day just as a battleship can.
They will just mutate.
Freedom:
I like fighters, I fly fighters.
I like bombers, I fly bombers.
I like gunboats, I fly gunboats.
Now...
I like cruisers, I fly fighters?
I like battleships, I fly fighters?
The freedom of chosing whatever ship I want is one of the greatest things about discovery.
Many people is attracted to this server because of that, some leave some stay, but I'm sure the player base we have here is encouraged by this factor.
Of course you can say, "but what's the quality of the player base we have?" That's up for debate. Because that would be beyond capital ships.
PvP:
I've seen people who are really good in gunboats, but they terrible suck in fighters, they even get killed in no time when they are in a fighter... Should we force them to don't fly the ship they are good with? For me, that's unfair.
Spyglass:
The spyglass is not of free choise, not anymore. Why? Because there was some people who abused of it (Funny, one of those players is so amazingly encouraged by other players), did it solve anything?
Sure, you don't see a Spyglass by a chance ever, except the HF.
But, this really didn't solve anything, they moved to the next faction which allowed capital ships.
So, let's do the same with all the factions... that's the motive of this thread, and the points it created.
So... point me to a KNF who acts out of KNF sense, and I'll take actions about him as KNF leader.
If there's a KNF acting out of his ID, report him.
Fee for being destroyed:
Are you even serious? So, I have to pay 5% for being destroyed?
Sure, I'll love to trade on my adv. train... Because, everytime I meet a pirate, I'll be demanded 9 million credits at least. Sure, there's no price for my life... but... that's just like... odd. And that's just the minimum, if the pirate know I'll lose 9 million if my ship is destroyed, they will ask 12 million, or more. Maybe 2 million for my cargo as well... that would be 11 million... so, let's say they demand 15 million? If we all agree that it's ok to demand 15 million for a.... let's say transport with superconductors, then I'll just start demanding that from everyone.
Considering that on one run, a 5k full of superconductors can't make more than 9 million, and I'm demanding 15 million, that sounds wrong, I'm talking beyond rules here.
That just reminded me, without caps, there will be a lot less traders around, which is not good either.
That's my point of view.
EDIT:
One more thing.
Shared accounts, we can't regulate who have access to shared accounts, therefore you can't regulate who have access to capital ships.
Or maybe we can regulate that, it's just that.... you would need an admin checking who's accessing a capital ship everytime... we didn't want to give them more tasks, right?
/signed
Very well done Casero. You explained it very well.
I just want to add that I think it is sad that a group of people want to limit the play of others and tell them what ship they can have or not have. Let us not forget the only reasone anyone needs credits here is to buy the next biggest/best ship they can. So telling them they cannot have it is just wrong.
Although this is an RP server, everone enjoys PvP. When OC and Sairs come together in the same space there may be some RP, but that is only to justify the weapons fire. The last time I checked both of these have quite a few of caps.
The only way to pull this off is to create a balanced system that:
1) Circumvents bias and power abuse.
2) Doesn't have so many rules and procedures that it turns Freelancer into a second job.
The best solution would be to have an FLHook system of sorts that requires you to accumulate reputation in-game the way you accumulate credits to buy ships. But for that you need programmers and that's an area of the development team heavily lacking.
After reading through the first post a few times, I can say I'd hapily welcome all of the stuff mentiond in there. (Post one)
I'd stand to loose.. Nine battleships ?
The only thing I'd like to add to this is the following; All ships that exist currently would get an immedeate refund of the cash they paid for the ships, plus they get to post in the "invisable section" first. (bar offocial faction ships)
![[Image: chenzo-final-2ATTEMPT.png?ex=6624272d&is...bfae104dd&]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1107756032106692772/1226269190453985298/chenzo-final-2ATTEMPT.png?ex=6624272d&is=6611b22d&hm=3404fc6fd8d6e4a5890ea3a23bf72424b7ee64cb41a3f4caa2ec2d1bfae104dd&)