Use of Faction Right 5 should be eased

[AeternusDoleo]

Judging by above, the template just needs one more option:

"FR5 type: Temporary (Set character to -0.89) / Permanent (Set character to -1)"
"Temporary FR5's can be used to force a player to drop using your IFF, or make him/her temporarily unwanted by your faction. The player can, through bribes or missions, regain good standing with your faction.
A permanent FR5 means the player will never again be able to regain good standing with your faction, and your faction will always consider him/her hostile."

This would still be subject to admin discretion. One oops shouldn't result in a permanent hostility. But repeated offenses continually fixed with bribes should be slapped with a .setrep Pain.In.The.Rear gd_my_grp -1

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Wide awake in a world that sleeps, enduring thoughts, enduring scenes. The knowledge of what is yet to come.
From a time when all seems lost, from a dead man to a world, without restraint, unafraid and free.

Mostly retired Discovery member. May still visit from time to time.

[Omicron]

Besides time you have to wait to see that in effect, FR5 is fine.

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[Madvillain]

However to give it to faction leaders would require FLHook commands. Which is simply not going to happen. Ever.

Sadly

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Baila Morena | Toilet Trouble | Elder Presidente[TBH] | The Titan Combat Manual | Confession

[Redirion]

However to give it to faction leaders would require FLHook commands. Which is simply not going to happen. Ever.

Currently I think whether an FR5 is permanent or not is discretionary on the part of the admins.

Non-permanent FR5s make the entire system useless for enforcing any kind of law and order on individuals who aren't hostile by default to a faction trying to enforce said order.

Judging by above, the template just needs one more option:

I would say, that the admins shouldn't be bothered with non permanent FR5 requests. A faction leader should be mature enough to decide, whether to issue a "-0.89"-FR5 or not.

The effect this has to the rp of the affected players is underestimated in my eyes.

Example:
An artifact smuggler get's FR5ed by the LPI to -.89. It will not only be timeconsuming, but may also be a pain to correct this.
First off has to find a possibility to alter his rep again. For example by bribing / or missions. Every action to alter his reputation ingame will also have side effects on other factions. For instance the Corsair npcs will try to pirate you, even if the rep allows you to dock on their bases. You need a specific reputation to be excluded from npc cargodemands.

The smuggler will have to elaborate new approaches, maybe even think of rp to get away without being FR5ed next time he gets caught. For instance: I have caught many indie smugglers. Did anyone even try to bribe me? No, not a single one. Why should they. They can just rename themselfes when they got listed at a criminal database or even if they are getting listed they can be fairly sure that not every lawful representative be it indie or official will have the list at hand all the time and recognize him.

It is unfair, that indies can annoy players who want to rp their character. We need an appropriate tool to also annoy them. That would be the "quick -0.89 FR5".

[Fellow Hoodlum]

The Faction Right #5 is a sanction, a roleplay not a server rule one, but a sanction all the same. There is even a cargo hold addition for it.
It is something that is done like a sanction report, with all the relevant boxes ticked to make sure it is correct
and proper. Especially the roleplay ones ...
As Del pointed out, it needs an flhook or a desk edit to make it work, so it's not something that will be given
to even the most trusted faction leaders. We rarely if ever see a request that is not warranted, and they
never take more than a day to be put in place.
The current system is fair and works just fine, with plenty of safeguards in place.

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Some say he is a proud member of: "The most paranoid group of people in the Community."

[Redirion]

ok, thank you for your time.

It seems that I missinterpreted the FR5 requirements.

So if there are no unequal huge efforts required to issue a FR5 on a player we only have to encourage our faction leaders to make use of FR5 more often.

[Fellow Hoodlum]

Much rather see more FR #5s coming in than the usual sanction reports, but sadly there are those who continue
to break the server rules, not the roleplay ones ...

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Some say he is a proud member of: "The most paranoid group of people in the Community."

[Tigger]

I think things are fine as they are for an FR5. There have been times when I would have begged, have begged, while admin of FP1 for an FR5 to be processed by the official factions. Zoners being somewhat unique due to three official factions and rarely having more than 2 of the 3 agree on anything, ever; getting one processed used to be nigh unto impossible.

While we role played denial of docking rights, an actual FR5 wasn't happening. We also would place bounties upon repeat offenders (Thank you Reavers, thank you MercNet) Not surprisingly though, the same persons we'd hope to FR5 were also committing rules infractions... 6.10 shooting and then docking at the station owned by the faction being shot at; re-engaging; many such. Thus if the issue was serious enough, instead of begging for an FR5 we processed rules violations, which were far more serious.

Role play has changed somewhat since last summer and fall. Several of the Freeports have united under a common and codified set of laws, and the confederation has the support of the official factions. A report is sent to us, and we all discuss the report and the level of evidence. Often times we go back to the one who made the report and say "thank you, but we need more of X, showing timestamps, as well as previous action Y prior to the incident at the station"

To me, this expands the role play, keeps everything inRP, and is fair enough to the accused that they can answer to the charges inRP or ignore them. If ignored, we process the FR5 with the admins. If it's a rules violation, we process those as well.

My experiences since last summer through to the present have tempered me in regards to filing an FR5. There are as many inRP options to do instead of filing an FR5 as there are of avoiding receiving one. Not having the option of an FR5 has taught me that, and I find myself still going through those options first before making the filing. Thus, for the official factions in which I've had the ability to make the report myself, I rarely do so unless other means haven't worked. The combined FR5 requests from ALG, Mollys and Gateway can be counted on the digits of one hand.


The system we have is fine as it stands. I don't want an FLHook ability to set an FR5 myself, I want the oversight to ensure that my T's have been crossed and my I's dotted, and that means to me that when I submit one to the admins, I know that there is enough there for it to be accepted. If I'm not 100% certain myself before filing the report, I don't file it, but data bank the information for use in a later report to prove a pattern of bad behavior.


In regards to the OP, it's been a long time since the official Zoner factions and the Freeports have been on the same page with regards to submitting an FR5 request. We don't move forward unless there is agreement to do so based on the evidence provided. Many reports get banked for future use as they are not enough for an FR5; and as I said previously, often times we go back to the reporter and say we need more. Remember though, when it comes to the Zoners, an infraction worthy of an FR5 at Corfu when processed also makes that offender hostile to FP2 in Bering, and FP10 in Tau 37, as well as FP1 in Omega 3. All of this is taken into consideration before an FR5 is filed.

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[Hawk]

Tigger's right, FR5 works pretty well the way it is. Nothing is perfect, but I do see this as the most efficient. I kind of like AD's suggestion of making it either permanent or temporary, but I also see that as dangerous. I've had a few years to practice using FR5's so I've learned to be careful with them. They work well but they can also be a harsh punishment for something that can be handled other ways.

There are more than a few FR5's I've regretted. I don't file them in haste or anger anymore. Mostly I do it when the consequences for Junkers will be worse for not doing it, or when someone makes it quite clear that they have no respect for RP at all. (The only case is should be permanent in my opinion)

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