Rules status of the Liberty blockade

[Doc Holliday]

Who the heck is silly enough to fine people FIVE millions for violating the embargo?!?

When I made the Embargo, there wasn't suppose to be any fine of any kind. >

YOU didn't but some other "holyer-then-though" did. Give someone the chance to rape the rules and they will. I personally think that someone needs to put a leash on the LN. They've been getting rather cocky to the point that alot of people don't want to do business in Liberty.

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[MFE]Med Force One | Tales of Recovery|Med Force Enterprises

[jimmy Patterson]

Since junker bases are not under control or jurisdiction of house governments, trade between them is a legal loophole around the embargo.

if it was up to me as the junkers are guests they would fall at least losely under house law sorta like thew hogosha are or zoners

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kudos tommeh for sig

[Raekur]

I've run diamonsd right past LN/LSF dozens of times.

My excuse? The diamonds are coming from bornholme depot outside of rheinland space, and are being taken to rochester depot to be used in the production of salvaging equipment. Since junker bases are not under control or jurisdiction of house governments, trade between them is a legal loophole around the embargo.

I havent had any LN or LSF players object to that yet, and I dont expect to.

I guess the LN/LSF you have encountered didnt realize one thing. Yes the junker bases are not under their control but the space you traverse between them is.

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As I told the LN who questioned my Junker: If I was of such low moral fiber as to be smuggling, why would I be bringing in diamonds from Rhineland when I could make a better profit with other contraband?

Carrying one of the 5 contraband items means that not only are you subject to being forced to drop your cargo by the LN or LSF but also the BH.
There is currently no security contract between the LN/LSF and the BH that permit BH to enforce the embargo. Granted while a BH should not stop a trader moving goods from Rhineland, there is nothing preventing the BH from notifying the LN of your approach.

[carlabrams]

Carrying one of the 5 contraband items means that not only are you subject to being forced to drop your cargo by the LN or LSF but also the BH.

Two things: There are 4 contraband items that, if the bounty hunter is in a FIGHTER or BOMBER only, that the hunter can be paid 50,000 credits for destruction thereof. If you're in anything larger, then the bounty does NOT apply (according to the bounty description) - so you as the hunter shouldn't be stopping them for the Liberty bounty.

The cardi bounty from LN is NOT valid in Liberty space - go read it. The slave bounty from the Bretonian Abolotionists was valid anywhere in Sirius last time I checked.

There is currently no security contract between the LN/LSF and the BH that permit BH to enforce the embargo. Granted while a BH should not stop a trader moving goods from Rhineland, there is nothing preventing the BH from notifying the LN of your approach.

There also is no bounty for you to actually do so, either. In Bretonian space, if you see a smuggler, you can do a s/s of him, get paid for it, and then potentially have the BAF/BPA/whoever actually post a bounty on the smuggler.

So therefore, while you're supposed to be lawful - it's NOT your job to ENFORCE the laws. That's up to the local governments. I was over in Dublin the other night - saw someone who blatantly said he was taking deuterium to New Tokyo. I just said, did you know that's against the trade embargo, and didn't say anything else - he voluntarily turned around and went back. (I was watching for some Corsairs at the time.)

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Sentient Machine Alliance

[Fletcher]

Two things: There are 4 contraband items that, if the bounty hunter is in a FIGHTER or BOMBER only, that the hunter can be paid 50,000 credits for destruction thereof. If you're in anything larger, then the bounty does NOT apply (according to the bounty description) - so you as the hunter shouldn't be stopping them for the Liberty bounty.

The cardi bounty from LN is NOT valid in Liberty space - go read it. The slave bounty from the Bretonian Abolotionists was valid anywhere in Sirius last time I checked.
There also is no bounty for you to actually do so, either. In Bretonian space, if you see a smuggler, you can do a s/s of him, get paid for it, and then potentially have the BAF/BPA/whoever actually post a bounty on the smuggler.

So therefore, while you're supposed to be lawful - it's NOT your job to ENFORCE the laws. That's up to the local governments. I was over in Dublin the other night - saw someone who blatantly said he was taking deuterium to New Tokyo. I just said, did you know that's against the trade embargo, and didn't say anything else - he voluntarily turned around and went back. (I was watching for some Corsairs at the time.)

The embargo shouldn't be enforced by Bounty Hunters in the sense where they are taking up the Police Forces job. For example:

Bounty Hunter: You trader, halt now! You are carrying contraband! Prepare to die (or await destruction from LN/LPI)

However, I see it reasonable that they can send a message to the police discreetly, and get paid discreetly. That is the way of the rat. Face it that's what the hunters are doing for cash in Liberty these days... I did it once... I liked the money. I just said "What a lovely set of Diamonds you have <insert name>". I didn't PM the authorities, but I didn't enforce the embargo directly.

Bounty Hunters need to work indirectly and tip off the police, not go in guns blazing, I don't think personally that is logical. The LPI need workers for their plants after all.:unsure:

To summarize, Bounty Hunters, don't enforce the embargo, just tip off the cops and just cruise disrupt and trade ring shutdown them. Don't kill them. After all, the police need proof that the pilot is smuggling OTHER than a screenshot. Sirius doesn't have Photobucket or Imageshack.:rtfm:

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"Oh chuffing blimey, another day, another person being whiney!"
Fletcher's Feedback and Stories Thread

[Doc Holliday]

To summarize, Bounty Hunters, don't enforce the embargo, just tip off the cops and just cruise disrupt and trade ring shutdown them. Don't kill them. After all, the police need proof that the pilot is smuggling OTHER than a screenshot. Sirius doesn't have Photobucket or Imageshack.:rtfm:

As I said in another post on this thread, some Bounty Hunters think they are "holyer-then-though" and exercise their itchy trigger finger. They think they are just an extension of the law....and they aren't.

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[MFE]Med Force One | Tales of Recovery|Med Force Enterprises

[MrCynical]

Although, when I think of it... I believe that I instated the Embargo too soon.. It is now somehow puzzling everything. Problem is, revoking the embargo is even more complicated (how could I RP that, if tensions keep rising?), hence why I tend to maintain it.

Pacifists in the Liberty Senate overrule the executive and refuse to ratify the embargo? Just a thought:)

YOU didn't but some other "holyer-then-though" did. Give someone the chance to rape the rules and they will. I personally think that someone needs to put a leash on the LN. They've been getting rather cocky to the point that alot of people don't want to do business in Liberty.

The Liberty laws are getting pretty ridiculous. Things like the embargo seem like an attempt to give the Liberty lawfuls something to do, as they don't have the same degree of pirate activity that (say) Bretonia has to deal with. Plus, as we're considering OORP reasons for/against it, I think the embargo is harming the server metagame (in the MMO sense) because several of the not-the-diamond-run trade routes (ie the multi-stop ones of the sort 4.85 will encourage) involve a Rheinland -> Liberty (or vice versa) transition at some stage.

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No longer active online due to a dwindling amount of non-PvP (trading, pirating, mining, etc.) fun in the new version.

[Rashnok]

Things like the embargo seem like an attempt to give the Liberty lawfuls something to do, as they don't have the same degree of pirate activity that (say) Bretonia has to deal with. Plus, as we're considering OORP reasons for/against it, I think the embargo is harming the server metagame (in the MMO sense) because several of the not-the-diamond-run trade routes (ie the multi-stop ones of the sort 4.85 will encourage) involve a Rheinland -> Liberty (or vice versa) transition at some stage.

Wait... Liberty doesn't have pirate activity? What kind of madness do you speak, sir? If one house always has pirates about, it's Liberty. You've never been on when the Lawfuls go to bed and the pirates take over New York, have you?

As for the metagame harm, I think that it'll be more interesting if running a blockade gets you more pay than not doing so.

[Doc Holliday]

No pirate activity in Liberty? That's a laugh! I've seen several Outcasts, Rogues and whoever else in front of Manhattan with the statement, "Manhattan is ours."

I have been tolled at the Texas jump gate and LH at West Point. So yes, the LN has other things they should be doing besides being concerned with what cargo travels through Liberty space and what doesn't or banning Mercenaries.

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[MFE]Med Force One | Tales of Recovery|Med Force Enterprises

[The Republic Of Liberty]

I have added the rule about the Embargo in the Law chart in the RP pined section.

Hope this will prevent any confusion anymore.

-king

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