Sun Running

[AshHill07]

To be honest. I've never tried it. But I don't see why this would become sanctionable.

Its nothing at all like F1ing. I mean in real life you "could" potentionally try this however exactly what happens is still not confirmed (Although its probably a safe bet you'll come out the other side a bit crispy). Whereas the ability to vannish from reality is a lot less likely (F1ing).

As for it as a tactic I don't see much of an issue. I've lost count of how many times I've had to give up a chase becuase the target(s) that decided it'd be a good idea to shoot at me have ran into an asteroid/mine field. This is essentially the same thing for caps.

So unless you want to scrap asteroid fields too ...

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\\ CDR David Roberts \\ CAPT Steven Eversman \\ VADM Ash Hill // RDML Chris Murray // CDR Mick Connors //
\\ SFC| Patrol-7 \\ SFC| LNS-California \\ SFC| LNT-Century // SFC| LNS-San.Francisco // SFC| Patrol-5 //

[dodike]

The talk isn't about it being not legitimate. The discussion is about the actual damage Battleship takes being in sun corona. Currently ships larger then a fighter takes so little damage so it takes lots of time for it to melt in sun. We want sundamage to be buffed dramaticly so even a large ship will not be able to sit there forever and even a 20-30 seconds will lead to massive hull and equipment damage. Light crafts will poof even more faster, but that will fix issue with people flying through the sun like it's np.

If you put it this way it doesn't seem so bad.

Oh yes. Touching star with my VHF is cool. So is F1'ing a tactic. Yet we have actual punishments for it.

Same intention. To avoid interaction.

But yeah. I missed by huge margin on this analogy =/

I forgive you.

[Lunaphase]

Fighters have asteroids which cannot be shoved aside by caps. Fighters have agility and can always escape a battleship. Fighters can thrust at litterally more than twice the speed of the battleship. Battleship anti snub guns are hilariously useless unless you SIT there taking fire in the "can not miss" zone. READ: sitting next to it point blank.

I fail to see why suddenly capitals having a SINGLE working chance to peel bombers off their bum is such a big deal, considering they are already pretty much defenceless vs snubs. If your attacking battleships with snubs, then you should be prepared for him to use a tactical method such as the coronas to wear you down or shake you off.

Honestly it wouldent be such a problem if a light fighter couldent stop a battleship in its tracks with one shot from a train, but currently its the only defence a capital has.

In the words of those who fly bombers and dont want to work for their toys: "Deal with it". You want caps to sit there and take a pounding? Fine by me if the dev team balances things appropriately for their size. Till then, im gonna continue running from your unblockable light mortar fighters because thats the only chance to SURVIVE an encounter, even with a fighter escort.

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[Curios]

Fighters have asteroids which cannot be shoved aside by caps. Fighters have agility and can always escape a battleship. Fighters can thrust at litterally more than twice the speed of the battleship. Battleship anti snub guns are hilariously useless unless you SIT there taking fire in the "can not miss" zone. READ: sitting next to it point blank.

I fail to see why suddenly capitals having a SINGLE working chance to peel bombers off their bum is such a big deal, considering they are already pretty much defenceless vs snubs. If your attacking battleships with snubs, then you should be prepared for him to use a tactical method such as the coronas to wear you down or shake you off.

Honestly it wouldent be such a problem if a light fighter couldent stop a battleship in its tracks with one shot from a train, but currently its the only defence a capital has.

In the words of those who fly bombers and dont want to work for their toys: "Deal with it". You want caps to sit there and take a pounding? Fine by me if the dev team balances things appropriately for their size. Till then, im gonna continue running from your unblockable light mortar fighters because thats the only chance to SURVIVE an encounter, even with a fighter escort.

You, and all your like, always forgets a one single issue.

Capital
Ship
Have
Shizload
of
Armor
And
Shields
Which are
strong enough
to make a fighter or
any bomber
unable
to kill bs
alone

Get it?

Battleship = 1 Player
and it always takes at least 3 Players on snubs to take it down.
So i don't see how being pwned by more people is an issue of a battleship or it's defence abilities? That's just pure numbers. Also some battleships are able to screw alot of bombers off, even more if with proper escort.
On a fighter if you'r attacked by 3 or more players you have pretty the same chances to go poof honestly.

But yeeees
WhineWhineWhineWhineZonerZonerZonerZonerZonerZealotSanctionbanBanNerfNerfFixFixFix

However, it was out of topic.
On topic i would like to say the next:

Sun have 3 Areas, and I'll repeat myself.

1 area - makes you feel a bit warm (100 damage\sec) and makes you know that you'r going too close to sun.
2 area - Makes any ship feel the pain good thing to be FLhookd it somehow - 5000 damage\sec for snub, 200000 damage\sec for BSes\Barge, 20000\sec for GB\Transport, 40000\sec for Cruisers\Destroyers. So if you enter there by accident you can make you way off and still survive, but with heavy damage.
3 area - aka no life zone - 10000000000000000000000000000000000000999999999999999123971289371\sec damage to any crap dares to enter. No one can fly that close to sun, not even you little superhero.

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[Dashiell]

Stay on topic plox. Not another bomber vs cap discussion. This one is about sun coronas and their epic failure of being actual sun coronas.

I agree with Curios here. Make guns fall off or severly damaged or make a 3 stage kill zone. I'd like to add though, that for the sake of balance the 10000000000000000000000000000000000000999999999999999123971289371 damage is downtuned to 10000000000000000000000000000000000000999999999999999123971289370 damage.

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[Geeky]

Q_Q caps got a viable defence against bomber swarming.. oh no... And your reasoning makes no sence. The cap ship is bigger yes, but it also has a bigger core, bigger shield, bigger everything, that would protect it against the corona of the sun.

Honestly, snubs are powerful enough against caps as it is. There's no reason to nerf caps further.

[Stoat]

Scale will always be a problem with regards to this tactic. A battleship would be what, a kilometre long, maybe a few kilometres long? Our sun, small as it is, is still 1.392×10 to the power 6 km across. That's nearly 1.5 million kilometers.

No craft is going to get close enough to the surface of a sun to bounce off of it. I'd like to see a kill zone added to all suns. You get too close to the centre, you go boom instantly. No bouncing around for a few minutes while your hull slowly degrades. And no warning as to where that kill zone is in relation to the "centre" of the sun. Then there's really some risk to it all. Do you skim the surface and leave yourself vulnerable to bombers and small caps, or do you dive deep, risking instant death. At the moment it's just a cop out.

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My Stories

[Jinx]

you have to decide

- lore?
- or gameplay

when you mix them too much - things become not only imbalanced, but also unfair...

lets look at the disco balance...

it is based on GAMEPLAY. - capital ships are weakened enough so that snubs can really hunt them successfully. - ( otherwise only a total moron would build a cap, stuff hundreds of trained ppl into it - and call it a flying coffin that can be taken out by 3 not too skilled bombers )

i think we agree that this is a GAMEPLAY decision... .

...

now - when we come up with real physics - or as real as we dare to get - and say that "but look here.... more surface equals more heat ..." and stuff .... we might consider things by LORE and not by GAMEPLAY.

cause right now - a cap running into the sun is EQUAL to a snub running into asteroids. ( can we agree on that? - or in general terms - "there is enviroment out there that favours one shipclass over another - but it never FORCES players to fly into them )

in that respect - we should also say that ... capital ships are a lot more often forced to deal with asteroids - than snubs are forced to deal with sun coronas.... .

after all - there are a lot more asteroids in the pathways than there are stars.... .




.....



now - if we come up with our amateurish physics - and say that both should burn like a feather in hell. - we consider things by the lore ( as i said before )

the unfair thing there is - when we consider a balance issue by the lore in that respect - why don t we consider them by the lore in other respects, too? ( yes - cause it disturbs the GAMEPLAY )

by the lore - the juggernaut is a near unstoppable machine of doom .... should we turn it into that?

by the lore, the liberty dreadnought is a technological marvel that packs a HUGE amount of weapons onto a ship of unmatched small size - should we do that?

by the lore, corsair fighters fly 20% faster ...

by the lore, outcasts probably pvp as if they perceive their inviroment in slow motion ( hence have better reflexes )




we decided to base the balancing entirely on GAMEPLAY though. - we consider the players, not the roleplayed characters. - we consider the chances of a players to experience fun over strict lore.


i believe that - if we go down the path of gameplay - we should NOT consider stuff like physics ( too much ) - and primarily ask ourselves:

"is sun running detrimental? - is it fair compared to settings like asteroids? is it a common tactic, a pro tactic or a newbie tactic? - can it be countered? does it require knowledge of the local enviroment ( knowledge being skill )?... etc."

if it turns out that sun running is indeed not unblancing - that it finds its counterpart in snubs running into asteroids - does it is require knowledge of the enviroment - and cannot be done brainlessly ( cause you do need to know your suns .... ) etc. - then we should really ditch it and say

"yes - it is balanced, and it is also fair - no it might not be realistic - but then.... who are we to say whats realistic about an arcade shooter.. "



edit:

you do NOT want realistic :

- cruise is meant to be near lightspeed : imagine a snub smashing into a little rock at near lightspeed - smashing results indeed
- a light fighter can hardly go from one system to another... cause it takes weeks sometimes
- jumpgates require a code to operate - should we lock them down for hostiles?
- jumpholes tend to damage ships that pass through - or the ships might never be seen again....
- death is usually fairly final...

we make compromises in favour of gameplay all the time.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Curios]

Comparing asteroid fields to suns is retarded for instance since asteroids not makes capship go boom in 5 seconds. OKAY, make asteroids to do collusion damage, a huge one, and we'll see about it when all your transports\lolcaps will crash in nearest asteroids because they can't stick their ass into the field without bumping everything on it's way. But for now it's just a little annoying issue - capship\bigship can go throught the field, with little bumps, but still - they are able to do so, even a biggeassest once.
But snubs are unable to go through the sun, and here is a reason for it - those who think it's how it supposed to be go play vanilla and try to go into the sun on the heaviest ship available (Titan). You'll see how it was supposed to be from the dev's point of view - You go to sun on Starflea - You die, You go titan - you die as well. Radiation damage was made in a little bit another way - you go to 41 with flea - you die, you go to there with Titan - You'll die as well, but that will take a 10 times more time.
So suns are made the way they are because there was nothing bigger then a snub with 14000 hull armor. So you die anyway.
And now here are caps with literraly 4-5 millions of armor, ships that were never supposed to be playerowned. Suns are not adjasted to act in a right manner to those new game objects - so FIX IT AHA;)
Your lolcaplogic is just a pathetic attempt to keep the bug unfixed so you can abuse it.

Also, I have few capships as well, and i don't see how fixing the bug will harm my experience with my beloved BS.

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[Ark]

It's a terrain feature. Badlands shake caps. Stars shake snubs.

Now of the two, only the rocks can be used indefinitely. If you have three bombers, it should be simple enough to corral the cap in the corona and it dies anyway.

Even easier in the next mod version where you'll have interceptors that can't be escaped from (faster cruise.)

If they survive? A higher repair bill than if they had died. So what's the problem?