You're right. OSI will not aid TAZ if they ruffle the Gallic Crown's feathers enough for the Crown to go after them in force. This is for a few reasons:
1. We're not a military and our security division is no match for the Gallics.
2. Throwing our assets at the Gallics would be throwing them away and thus endangering the lives of Zoners in other parts of Sirius as we'd not be able to serve them.
3. We're not going to fight a war that another group, Zoner or not, started for petty reasons.
Zoner solidarity can not truly exist. The swath of space that the Zoner community covers make it all but impossible for one single entity to manage any type of diplomatic stability. Contrary to in game play, Zoners are a very small faction. Why would the Zoners of Freeport 9 send a 1/4 of their population to help defend Freeport 10? They'd be sacrificing their own protection.
Very clear divisions exist because we're all Zoners for different reasons. Some Zoners do not dislike the houses, they merely don't wish to be subject to their whims. Some abhor the houses. Others, like those on 14, even dislike other Zoners.
Solidarity can come, but that means it comes under a banner and means that certain freedoms would have to be given up by the individual. Many Zoners are in the fringe because they prefer individual freedom over the way houses do it.
There is some solidarity, but very local. At least I've seen it. Omega-49? SCRA threatened the system. What happened? OSI leveraged its relations to get the fleet to leave. Trog and the SEF were there ready to fight should the need be. Victor asked them to not instigate and they complied. Freeport 1 sent aid.
The difference is that the threat was aimed at something all Zoners hold dear, not at a specific Zoner or group of Zoners. If we all reacted to what happened to each little Zoner group - we'd all eventually start being treated as one group by the houses and other groups. That is how it was under the CoZ and the ZA.
I'd just like to say, that criticism about OSI holding to blanket neutrality being an act of abandoning Zoner ideals is rather paradoxical since Vanilla establishes the two main Zoner ideals are neutrality and freedom outside House space. Freeport 2's infocard and rumors clearly show Zoners still have some dealings with the houses to get goods not made outside their borders. Freeport 1, 6, 14, and Ames also, by necessity, must cooperate and have diplomatic relations with the houses due to their location. The Zoners can't fight off a house navy. Point blank and very simple, they don't have the resources, manpower, money, or allies to do it. It's the same reason Corsairs and Outcasts keep the locations of Malta and Crete secret. If a hostile house found the location of it, they'd be dead. They don't have the military power to fight a navy. And the Outcasts and Corsairs are stronger still than the Zoners. That's why, according to lore, the Zoners of Freeport 9 have always played both sides against the other, in order to keep the status quo. This is also the reason behind the lore of Zoners forbidding the Corsairs from establishing a base in Theta.
Zoners have survived the past century by sticking firm to neutrality. The player factions have since stepped away from that, but lore has not changed from that fact. So saying the OSI are no longer Zoners because they aren't taking sides is contradictory to lore. Zoners who intentionally wage war without very good reason are actually the ones stepping away from Zoner lore. The conflicts with the Corsairs, while technically in roleplay given lore, showed us that it doesn't end well for the Zoners. You had few allies to call upon, the Omicroners had strained relationships with the Outcasts, historically a sympathetic and understanding neighbor, to the point where the OC didn't really send any substantial assistance to them. The few instances where the Corsairs were routed were due more to the RoS than any combined effort by the Zoners and their few allies. (This is not to say I agree with the reasons the Corsair playerbase tried to use to justify their war on the Zoners, or the roleplay they tried to claim kept Crete from starving.)
While the CoZ might have created an unfavorable situation of most of Sirius seeing the Zoners as a single body, it did have a great advantage in stimulating the diplomatic skills and activity of the most influential Zoners. CoZ was, by far, the most conflict-free era the Zoners enjoyed, because there were many Zoners who would step up to the plate and use Diplomacy to settle those conflicts. Or, when that was impossible, to call on all the friendly contacts that had been established by those people, in order to intimidate their opponent and get him to the negotiating table.
Unfortunately, the Zoner community (not all of it, but in general) has recently taken more steps towards polarizing themselves politically and diplomatically, which is why the faction has been in a steady decline. Zoners survived through fluidity of diplomacy and negotiations. These recent examples of hard-line approaches by the Zoners have eroded your diplomatic standings throughout half of Sirius, and now you are looked at suspiciously by the two most liberal houses in Sirius. Likewise, many non-house groups have tenuous relations with you as well. Realistically, you have few allies to call upon. LE, GMG.
In contrast, the OSI have fantastic diplomatic relations throughout Sirius. They're looked at with respect and welcomed in almost all sections of the galaxy - including Gallia. They are free of almost any forms of threats and conflict. Their biggest opponents are independent pirates. While the OSI does not have many allies to call upon, nor do they have many enemies to make that necessary. They also have the diplomatic friendliness and neutrality necessary to call upon local groups who are enemies of any groups that might become an enemy with offerrings for their assistance, whereas the rest of the Zoner playerbase generally cannot since all local parties look at them with suspicion and generally don't care if their enemy is after you.
A good example is the Omegas. Corsairs, SCRA, Hessians, and Bretonia. Back in the CoZ days, we could call on Corsairs to intervene if the Hessians or SCRA made trouble. Corsairs had access to Canaria, and our food shipments go through that space. Corsairs help us out, shooting people already their enemy, and they get free food and other shipments to Crete or other Corsair bases.
Or if the Corsairs were making trouble, Hessians and SCRA could be contacted.
Trouble with the Bretonians? SCRA, Corsairs.
Trouble with Hessians? Rheinland, Corsairs, SCRA.
However, with current stances, SCRA is not on good footing with most Zoner players/groups (correct me if this has changed). Corsairs generally despise you. Hessians couldn't care less. The Bretonians just want you to go away. IMG won't get on the bad side of SCRA, Hessians, or Bretonia in order to assist you, where they get no real benefit for doing so.
Simply put; If any group in the Omegas decides they don't want the Zoners around anymore, you've got noone to stop them from going after you.
This "pick a side" mentality that many of the Zoner players are pushing the rest of the Zoner playerbase towards, is what's gutting the diplomatic standings of Zoners in Sirius. OSI is the only one pushing back and choosing to go their own way; Neutrality above all. This is why "the Zoners" are in a diplomatic pickle and "the OSI" have close to a blank slate to work with in most any situation.
I'm certainly not of the opinion that OSI needs criticized on their diplomatic stances. Rather, the rest of the Zoner playerbase has poisened the well for any players who do want to try playing that kind of character. The indies suffer for decisions, and now the Zoners is one of the hardest, most ill-will-laden faction to play. Furthermore, the ideological crusaders in the Zoners trying to make all members of the NPC faction conform to what you think is right, is also making the factino very difficult to play from an OOC standpoint, because their own faction brethren are always pressuring them to conform to their diplomacy.
I wouldn't say the OSI are responsible for the troubles the Zoners are facing right now. They are just a convenient party to blame for it. Their success is looked at suspiciously, but it's not like they've abandoned or scapegoated other Zoners to get it. They've simply chosen wiser decisions and approached all situations evenly and diplomatically. Rather than putting pressure on the OSI, I'd suggest some of you take a look at how OSI conducts itself and try to borrow some of their methodations.
This also offers my viewpoint for you Daedric. In my opinion, OSI are doing just fine, and are being quite Zonerish. A sight more Zonerish than any other group I've seen in a long time.
To the faction leader:
Would you fly other ships then While like Stork or Titanic to get around the 3600 House space restriction or not?
I am not here to troll- I just want to know for my personal amusement so simple yes or no would be more then enough for me- you always were decent group and I am just wondering that's all.
If the answer is No I would like to know if you would be ok to report you for 6.9 if I screen someone with OSI ID doing because the common discovery player like me is a bit sick of "gentleman agreements" and it is good to have it written at first place.
Have a nice day.
(10-09-2013, 10:51 AM)Knjaz Wrote: Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)
It is not like that I am Idiot and cannot read the ID. You didn't answered the question- it means 2 things- you are not capable to answer it or you does not want to answer it- the question got yes or no as answer with add-on to the no part, I hope it is not that hard for you to answer simple question as that or?
(10-09-2013, 10:51 AM)Knjaz Wrote: Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)
If you're going to be a dick, you can take a walk.
Do keep in my your English isn't that great. I honestly don't know exactly what you are asking and I attempted to answer what I thought you were asking. So either get someone who has a better handle on English to rephrase what you're asking or rephrase it yourself and I'll be more than happy to answer the question.
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