' Wrote:Without [LN] enforcing against pirates and essentially filling in when the LPI aren't there, Liberty would probably be the most unlawful house. Not to mention, so much moaning from traders whining about how the taxes they apparently pay to Liberty doesnt give them any protection. Were the [LN] to disappear overnight, you would find it very hard to run LAF as a pure navy faction I think.
Furthermore, all the bits of [LN] that you mentioned are compartmentalised and seperate, to allow people to do those different RPs within the faction if they so choose. It makes things more diverse, which I think you might lack over time as your faction matures.
As for the power bit, that's reassuring, and quite possibly a first amongst Liberty factions.
Concerning the carrier bit, I was more getting at the fact that the Airforce doesn't really use carriers except in exceptional circumstances where other alternatives are out of range or otherwise unavailable for use. Translated into the game, this would mean that you would actually base from planets and bases, rather than stationary or mobile capital ships as the Navy would.
As for atmospheric operations, space-based forces even in this storyline have conducted fights in atmospheres, most notably the invasion of Titan (I think it's Titan, or maybe Europa) by Coalition forces that you can see in the vanilla FL intro. An airforce wouldn't offer the same flexibility, or any new capability to compensate, that I can see. Then again, thats viewing LAF from a strategic standpoint..
Granted, if the [LN] vanished, the LAF would be forced to tackle pirates. But the reason that this case is the LN made the mistake (and all house militarys) of acting like the cop from the very start. It should never have got to like it is now. At least I'm getting myself and ever growing numbers moving in the right direction. But don't be confused, if suddenly 3 Xeno bombers started shooting up Manhattan orbit or 2 Liberty Rogue Gunboats are on a kill streak, we'll deal with it. That may be just observing them and calling for the LSF or LPI however. If friendlys got engaged, we'd support if needed too.
No way to tell until this faction does mature. We'll see right?
Well true, today you'd never see a USAF Aircraft Carrier, but you would see USAF Aircraft on a USN Aircraft Carrier and that is what I'm suggesting. Having a LNS Carrier and RP a LN captain and command, but with LAF pilots and maintenance crews. We could switch to various Battle Transports in 4.86 if needed however.
I know, even in the campaign the ships were flyng just above the ground of planets remember? But I feel very strongly, that a average Defender could be out flown and gunned by Jet fighters in the future. We have the technology to build F-22 Raptors and thats with less than 100 research. Imagine the future man... jets firing missiles that can reach the other side of continents or flying at crazy speeds. I believe in RP the Air Force of Liberty has those kinds of planes and if a Defender spacecraft flew on the planes, they would be in for a fight.
There is nothing wrong with roleplaying a specialised squadron/wing of the Liberty Navy. The more people that put effort to into Liberty, the better it becomes.
However, being an atmospherically orientated squadron is... nearly impossible to roleplay, given the limitations of the Freelancer game engine. I find that the key issue being that your name is inappropriate for what you might want to undertake, such as flying more than 2k from a planet.
Edit: Technologically speaking, this idea is easily possible. I won't deny that.
' Wrote:There is nothing wrong with roleplaying a specialised squadron/wing of the Liberty Navy. The more people that put effort to into Liberty, the better it becomes.
However, being an atmospherically orientated squadron is... nearly impossible to roleplay, given the limitations of the Freelancer game engine. I find that the key issue being that your name is inappropriate for what you might want to undertake, such as flying more than 2k from a planet.
It is tempting but then we would be one of many. I'm not RPing the LAF as atmospheric combat pilots doing atmospheric combat but in a space ship. I'm RPing it as the Air Force getting its balls out of the gutter, reaching new heights and joining the fight in space. Not only would this enhance the defense of Air Force bases on the planets, but reinforce the Navy and Liberty.
' Wrote:Granted, if the [LN] vanished, the LAF would be forced to tackle pirates. But the reason that this case is the LN made the mistake (and all house militarys) of acting like the cop from the very start. It should never have got to like it is now. At least I'm getting myself and ever growing numbers moving in the right direction. But don't be confused, if suddenly 3 Xeno bombers started shooting up Manhattan orbit or 2 Liberty Rogue Gunboats are on a kill streak, we'll deal with it. That may be just observing them and calling for the LSF or LPI however. If friendlys got engaged, we'd support if needed too.
No way to tell until this faction does mature. We'll see right?
I still think that this whole "just observing" thing is just an excuse for you guys to have less work to do. The reality is that pirates cause significantly more problems for Liberty than anyone else does. It's also going to be a source of bad blood when you drop out of a lane and see a trader getting pirated and just zoom off saying "not my problem."
Since you're so big on "real life examples"--if a USN cruiser passed by a luxury liner getting raided by pirates, they sure as hell wouldn't ignore it. Or if uniformed Army personnel saw a store getting robbed, I doubt they'd just ignore the guy and say "oh yeah, I'll call the cops for you" to the store owner. Saying "won't go looking for pirates" is one thing, but ignoring them when they present themselves? That's a recipe to get your faction a bad name. "Yeah, the LAF is just a bunch of lolwuts in fighters who act all high and mighty and don't bother to actually fight.
Quote:Well true, today you'd never see a USAF Aircraft Carrier, but you would see USAF Aircraft on a USN Aircraft Carrier and that is what I'm suggesting. Having a LNS Carrier and RP a LN captain and command, but with LAF pilots and maintenance crews. We could switch to various Battle Transports in 4.86 if needed however.
I'd suggest you actually spend ten seconds researching your real life examples before you start spouting off about them. IRL you will NEVER see USAF aircraft on a USN carrier. It doesn't work that way--the jets the USAF flies are not capable of carrier operations.
Quote:I know, even in the campaign the ships were flyng just above the ground of planets remember? But I feel very strongly, that a average Defender could be out flown and gunned by Jet fighters in the future. We have the technology to build F-22 Raptors and thats with less than 100 research. Imagine the future man... jets firing missiles that can reach the other side of continents or flying at crazy speeds. I believe in RP the Air Force of Liberty has those kinds of planes and if a Defender spacecraft flew on the planes, they would be in for a fight.
If such technology were available why wouldn't they put it on the Defenders as well?
' Wrote:Since you're so big on "real life examples"--if a USN cruiser passed by a luxury liner getting raided by pirates, they sure as hell wouldn't ignore it. Or if uniformed Army personnel saw a store getting robbed, I doubt they'd just ignore the guy and say "oh yeah, I'll call the cops for you" to the store owner. Saying "won't go looking for pirates" is one thing, but ignoring them when they present themselves? That's a recipe to get your faction a bad name. "Yeah, the LAF is just a bunch of lolwuts in fighters who act all high and mighty and don't bother to actually fight.
It's already been said. We won't totally ignore them, we WILL keep an eye on them and inform the ones who's job is to take care of them aka Police. We aren't going to jump off the lane if we see a lone Roc sitting right next to it waiting for a trader. We'll rather inform the Police.
' Wrote:I still think that this whole "just observing" thing is just an excuse for you guys to have less work to do.
Well you're wrong.
' Wrote:The reality is that pirates cause significantly more problems for Liberty than anyone else does. It's also going to be a source of bad blood when you drop out of a lane and see a trader getting pirated and just zoom off saying "not my problem."
We'll support friendlies if needed. But we aren't going to be holding everyones hand. If a trader screams on the system chat "Help, being attacked at California Gate lol:(" I won't move. I won't reply since I shouldn't be the one moving in when it is a police law enforcement matter. If I came across a trader being shot at I'd act as a defense force for the trader, if the bad guy began to flee I'd leave him since chasing them is not my job.
' Wrote:Since you're so big on "real life examples"--if a USN cruiser passed by a luxury liner getting raided by pirates, they sure as hell wouldn't ignore it. Or if uniformed Army personnel saw a store getting robbed, I doubt they'd just ignore the guy and say "oh yeah, I'll call the cops for you" to the store owner. Saying "won't go looking for pirates" is one thing, but ignoring them when they present themselves? That's a recipe to get your faction a bad name. "Yeah, the LAF is just a bunch of lolwuts in fighters who act all high and mighty and don't bother to actually fight.
If I came across a trader being shot at I'd act as a defense force for the trader, if the bad guy began to flee I'd leave him since chasing them is not my job. We won't go out patrols looking for pirates. Instead we'll go defend the frontlines, be that Rheinland, Order&Aliens or in 4.86, Leeds. The LSF/LN/LPI can do whatever they want to do, it's not like Liberty has a lack of lawfuls, but LAF won't be your police officer. Quit whining about that since it isn't going to change.
' Wrote:I'd suggest you actually spend ten seconds researching your real life examples before you start spouting off about them. IRL you will NEVER see USAF aircraft on a USN carrier. It doesn't work that way--the jets the USAF flies are not capable of carrier operations.
We've never been at all out war for nearly 70 years. And in ww2 you will find Us Army planes (the USAF didn't exist back then) were launched on USN carriers. I would not be surprised at all if say America went to war with another 1st rate military like China, if USAF Jets didn't land on USN carriers out in the seas if the jets needed to. but then again, we have jets that can fly all around the globe but unlike in space, what do you expect a LN Navy Defender to undock Manhattan at a Navy ground base, fly to the front, have 5 hours of combat and fly back? No. And the LAF wouldn't either. We'd need the carrier INRP. But like OH so many people have said, FL is not RL so (and I will too), should try and stop using real life situations. I will now, hope you can agree to.
' Wrote:If such technology were available why wouldn't they put it on the Defenders as well?
Cost? Why put millions upon millions worth of equipment that makes the aircraft excel in a certain terrain when 99% of the time it'll fight and be destroyed everywhere but that terrain. Secondly mechanically it may not be possible to cram space technology needed to make the Defender excel in space combat, also equalize in Atmospheric battles with super sonic and whatever else 'super' jets. But again, we are playing in a fantasy land, sometimes we should just 'roll' with it.
Is it possible to have some thing like in WTS world ? Like On planet surface? Well Liberty Air force would be perfect in air of a planet not in space and if we have something in Disco like on planet combat like in WTS mod starting ,then Your Idea is Pretty cool.
But Air force? In Space?,
I think It Must be "LIBERTY SPACE FORCE" |-LsF-|.
I would like to point out what military factions do in Freelancer.
Let's take a look for Liberty Navy. They patrol half of NY (south to be exact) enforcing law at West Point/Missouri to down of the map. They go where it is too dangerous for regular police (Badlands) to wander around. I would compare it to Mexico deploying regular army in attempt to control rising organised crime on their territory. Liberty does have simmiliar problem in space. In rest of the houses military concetrates on containing separatists (examples being Mollys) and revolutionaires (Bundshuh, Hessians, Dragons) which is regular thing to do for a army in case of "civil war".
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