Discovery 4.87 Balance Discussion

[aerelm]

May I ask what class the guns are going to be?

And I guess it's not getting a dedicated CD slot.....oh well.

Class 8 guns, class 2 turrets. And nope, it's keeping its single CD/T slot.

<That whole post>

You might not be aware of this, but a complete overhaul of transports/liners is in order for one of the post-release updates. So hold on to your pants for now and voice your concerns after those updates.

Would it be possible to upgrade Grizzly's cargo to approx 500 units? Right now it is too small to be an upgrade

Grizzly is not supposed to be a cargo freighter, It's more of a VIP shuttle. You think it's not "much of an upgrade" because you're looking at the wrong part of the stats. It has the highest amount of regens, and actually 45 regens more than its Rheinland counterpart. So it's perfectly balanced the way it is. If people want a cargo freighter, they can use the new Rhino.

[Karst]

May I ask what class the guns are going to be?

And I guess it's not getting a dedicated CD slot.....oh well.

Class 8 guns, class 2 turrets. And nope, it's keeping its single CD/T slot.

Hmm.....that's a little disappointing. Now please correct me if their is some flaw in my logic, but this is what I mean when I say it's underpowered.

Damage assuming, for simplicity's sake, a full loadout of Purple Goddesses / Wildfires.
Compared to the Ragnar:
(X-Shuttle / Ragnar)

Forward dps
7614 / 14098 (4 WF, 1 PG / 7 PG)
Side dps
6042 (3 PG)
Rear dps
10070 / 14098 (5 PG / 7 PG)

Hit points
18900 / 29000

Regens
95 / 150

Other powerful freighters make for similar comparisons - and the only thing that balances this out is T slot, but really I am not sure what this is intended to be used for.

Let's look at what freighters' purposes are.

1) As a noob trade ship. The X-Shuttle makes a poor choice for this, because it is relatively expensive and has a smaller hold than the more obvious choices.
Even if I noob decided to use an X-Shuttle for their noobish trading, they would not be able to effectively use the T slot, because torpedoes require skills noobs don't have.

2) As an interceptor
Freighters like the Grizzly are great for interception because of high firepower, good durability, and higher cruise speed.
Obviously, this role would mean the X-shuttle can't use torps, leaving it simply a sub-par freighter.

3) As an escort

Arguably one of the rare situations when an X-shuttle could use its T slot, such as for assisting a battletrans against a gunboat or ptrans.
The problem is, using a forward firing, slow gun against targets that are faster is next to impossible. A bomber or fighter pilot would have to be pretty incompetent to be MR'd by an X-shuttle.
All of that aside, freighter escorts are really niche anyway.

5) For piracy

The X-Shuttle is very poor for piracy thanks to terrible forward firepower. And of course, piracy isn't possible when mounting a Torpedo.

4) As a roleplaying device

The X-Shuttle is great for rp'ing as a research/exploration vessel as it's described.
This is not affected by its inferior pvp capabilities or presence of a T slot.

So I had a thought that might make it more useful.

What about improving the T slot's arc? So that it can fire it to the sides, maybe even 360 degrees? Would make it very unique, and reward players with good aim (not me).

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[aerelm]

<That whole post>

Gun classes in 4.87:

• Class 8 (hp_gun_special_8) : Fighter guns - Heavy (current class 9)
  
• Class 9 (hp_gun_special_9) : Codename weapons / VHF guns (current class 10)
  

[Rodnas]

On the Eagle balancing: it is great that the bird is getting slapped, the slow LFs will be reliefed to hear they are no longer outturned by the fat bird ^^ Now the question is: will the other VHF speed freaks get a similar treatment to make a clearer differentiation between LF, HF and VHF ?

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Read about: The Benitez Familia and Trueno Benitez

---Not available for any disco stuff these days(and for an extended period of time to come, too ---

[aerelm]

Not for now.

[belarusich]

Will HFs have missile slot?

Ah, they will. Nice

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more than 1 kill per minute in shooter is cheating now :\

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[belarusich]

With this another question: will marauder has 2 CD slots(1 shared with torpedo, other with missile)?

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http://i.imgur.com/kUwDiuk.jpg
more than 1 kill per minute in shooter is cheating now :\

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[Anaximander]

That'd require some amounts of coding, so it's currently put on hold.

How about just removing B/B from caps and give them significantly more shield and/or hull; or perhaps slow hull regeneration (you know, like on BSG - crew running around fixing stuff in the heat of battle)?

I'm really sick and tired of caps feeding snubs; it ruins a good brawl, force you to use bombers or dirty tactics to end a snub in one go, and everyone seem to be feeding these days. Any way to get around that would be great.

[Ursus]

Would it be possible to upgrade Grizzly's cargo to approx 500 units? Right now it is too small to be an upgrade

Grizzly is not supposed to be a cargo freighter, It's more of a VIP shuttle. You think it's not "much of an upgrade" because you're looking at the wrong part of the stats. It has the highest amount of regens, and actually 45 regens more than its Rheinland counterpart. So it's perfectly balanced the way it is. If people want a cargo freighter, they can use the new Rhino.

I'm perfectly fine with the Grizzly having a different design purpose. The point here is that Grizzly is unable to function as an upgrade due to the lack of cargo capacity. If you give the Grizzly a bumpt to 500 cargo then it will become a viable upgrade option. Right now the only viable upgrades are Zoner or civ freighters, while all the other houses have freighters with 600+ cargo. Giving it 500 will still be smaller than the other options (Camara will still be better), but it will also become a viable option for a house-branded freighter.

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Discovery 24/7 Negotiating Tactics:

[aerelm]

Will HFs have missile slot?

will marauder has 2 CD slots?

HFs will have one missile slot. In case of standard HFs (4 Cl8, 2 Cl7) the slot will be shared with one of the Cl8s, and in case of Gladie-like HFs, it'll be shared with the secondary CD slot (1 CD/T, 1 CD/M), and no, Marauder is not getting a second CD slot.

How about just removing B/B from caps and give them significantly more shield and/or hull

Sure, we can do that, and also while at it, we'll have to push the release date back a few more months.

The point here is that Grizzly is unable to function as an upgrade due to the lack of cargo capacity.

all the other houses have freighters with 600+ cargo.

Based on your own post:

Grizzly is a whole different ship, for a different customer, with a different purpose.

Grizzly is not supposed to be an upgrade to the Rhino in the first place, as it's a whole different ship, for a different customer, with a different purpose.

That aside, in case you missed it - Giving it "Mk2 stats" means Rhino is getting a cargo buff as well, and it's not just hull buff or weap slots.