BS are the weakest class out there. all can out run bs. Snubs can dance at 300-400 meters from the caps all day long.
I dont know why you blame caps. for now caps are just happy time for gank. dam you even nerf the cloak so a BS cant escape at all now.
Caps cant kill you if you dont want them to specaly BS but with small ships you can evade cruisers to prety easy.
Cap users are not a problem coz for now caps have very very low chance to kill small ships. they are only tanks to
be shoot at.
From every aspect in pvp caps are doomed vs small crafts with the weapons they have now.
And from RP point when you rp in a cap ppl in small ships dont pay much atencion to you coz they know you are no threat to them.
You say limite caps. what caps can do in pvp with the current stats and weapons they have.
you say oo a LABC killed me when he jumpt to cali. oo he dint give me any worning.
I dont say he did good that killed you without RP but with the current weapons that caps have, the only way he can kill you if you remain still.
I do use my LABC time to time and when i see a pirate i RP but 80 % of the times when i RP i get killed.
You know why? i tell you in the mean time that i RP the pirate call for help and 2-3 bombers come on me and i get raped. even if i got suport VHF GB they still kill me and is nothing i can do about that.
The current weapons of the caps RP is high risk for them.
The only thing that Caps can kill now is other Caps.
If capital ships were actually as powerful as they should be the i would be for it, however in their current state two decently skilled bombers can wreck any cap out there, due to the simple fact that the capital just cant damage the bombers enough before going down or losing its armaments.
Out of personal experience i have seen far more genuine douchebaggery in bombers and pirate transports than i have in capital ships, out of the 4 years ive been here now.
BS being a problem? grab two bombers and ream his face.
Multiple battleships a problem? Grab some more buddies and pick targets. They will go down quite fast unless they are VERY skilled.
On the flip side, multiple gunboats a problem? ...only solution is other gunboats, as cruisers and bs just cant effectively engage them. They will just flat out be overwhelmed by fire.
Bombers being a problem? Well, SOL if they are any good, dodge for quite some time unless you have a cadre of equally skilled fighter pilots.
Fighters being a problem? Only solution is other fighters. Sometimes not even that if the guy lags like no tommorow.
seeing as battleships and cruisers are very easily countered by comparison, I think such a thing isnt really needed. Yes, there are a few complete nimrods in capitals, but there, at least from my experience, are far and away much more common in the other ship classes. And those other ship classes are even HARDER to counter, since it almost always requires a significant numbers advantage do get it done in any short amount of time, unlike capital ship fights which are comically short.
You want to make caps need fuel, ammo, repairs? Fine. But it just wouldent make any sense to not give them a REASON to be so costly. Otherwise your looking at the majoroty of cap fliers who DO rp, getting lolganked by bombers who dont. Why should we penalise the roleplayers, and ignore the idiots actually at fault? Seems flawed to punish many for the actions of so few. If we go down that road then we should make snac's not work on transports (since theres alot of arses that like to pick on lobies that have no chance) Or make cruisers unable to hurt transports. ("may engage" Line on the ID was a huge mistake i think. No matter how you hash it, cruiser vs transport is only gonna end well for one of the two, and it isnt the guy whos trying to make some creds. its the guy looking for cheap thrills and not thinking about others.)
TLR, caps are right now a pale shadow of what they should be. If you think they are a problem at the moment then i suggest you stop flying into their point blank ranges, as most of them cant hit jack anything BUT strafe range.
(06-23-2013, 09:57 PM)Govedo13 Wrote: It is like the bomber TS/Zoom bug- it is there devs fixed it once, then forgot about it on the next beta realise and we all ended in the final 4.86 for more then 1 year till now with autoaiming TSing snac bombers that can win vs even the best PvPers using only bomber energy guns. The people that abuse this are indeed lolwuts, but they are not to blame because the devs gave them the option purely legal and they use it. You are knocking at the wrong door so to say. The only good thing here is that there are not many that are skilled enough to use bomber in TS mode properly, otherwise we could have ended with unjustified and stupid bomber nerf like the cloaks nerf.
Hm, never heard about that, may be now people dont use this?
I understand people who like to fly caps and it is their right. There should not be any limitating system that decides "who is worthy of owning one" or any restrictions.
Why?
Pretty much because fighter combat sucks in Disco. In my experience, only every 10th fight is cool, most are just boring, long-winded, repetitive... too slow (e.g. no progess) or too fast (e.g. insta out of nowhere)... spoilt by dick moves like rebotting, lag dodging, base-hugging, jumphole-play, npc-farming or generally just insta-repairing the damage that was caused slowly.
Snub combat is generally too hectic, ships too small, guns too slow, dodging too effective, difference between no-skill, medium skill and high skill is much too large...to sum it up: snub combat plainly sucks.
If you are not giften with eagle eyes and reflexes and some rare talents of whatever sort, you will likely just suck at snubs, hardly ever hitting anything, but dying like a baws to ships you never even see, not even to talk about hitting.
So it comes as no surprise that a lot of players go for ships that are immune to these pesky little unhittable VHFs that are (for them) impossible to kill. A cap offers invulnerability against the VHF ship class and also against the players that rule this ship class.
Cap fights offer something else. A completely different gaming experience. And one that is in my opinion much better than the snub experience. Cap fights end faster, they actually feel like fights pretty often (while snub combat feels like 'slowly draining' instead of 'fighting fiercely'). These ships can get hit and if you hit with them, you hit hard and... the most important part is: you have an impact.
You hit in a VHF? Congrats. You just drained 2 bots of... 80 (not counting the rebotting that will happen in every 3rd fight anyway).
You almost killed a VHF? He goes full dodge and docks. Another fight without an explosion. Or he thrusts for 30 k effortlessly and planetdives with a fat trollface.
In VHF, people gank like hell because it's the only way to win in a reasonable time frame. But the gank also justifies every dick move as an answer.
=> And so we go on and on and on and nearly every VHF fight leaves a bad taste.
Caps have the decency to go down, to da damage before they go down and to blow up beautifully.
So the problem is not caps.
The problem is the unattractive snub system that forces people incapable of doing snub combat to play with caps.
My solution:
Fix snub combat, and you will have much less cap spam because many players would not feel like "I have no chance in the snub segment, I fly something they cannot touch.".
It's not about who is worthy to use caps and who isn't, but who is capable to use one properly, and use them as intended, like not turning a Neph into a warship when it was intended to be a mobile freeport.
And afaik snub combat is just about to change, so that doesn't seem to be a valid reason either.
(06-24-2013, 10:14 AM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: My opinion on Capships:
I understand people who like to fly caps and it is their right. There should not be any limitating system that decides "who is worthy of owning one" or any restrictions.
Why?
Pretty much because fighter combat sucks in Disco. In my experience, only every 10th fight is cool, most are just boring, long-winded, repetitive... too slow (e.g. no progess) or too fast (e.g. insta out of nowhere)... spoilt by dick moves like rebotting, lag dodging, base-hugging, jumphole-play, npc-farming or generally just insta-repairing the damage that was caused slowly.
Snub combat is generally too hectic, ships too small, guns too slow, dodging too effective, difference between no-skill, medium skill and high skill is much too large...to sum it up: snub combat plainly sucks.
If you are not giften with eagle eyes and reflexes and some rare talents of whatever sort, you will likely just suck at snubs, hardly ever hitting anything, but dying like a baws to ships you never even see, not even to talk about hitting.
So it comes as no surprise that a lot of players go for ships that are immune to these pesky little unhittable VHFs that are (for them) impossible to kill. A cap offers invulnerability against the VHF ship class and also against the players that rule this ship class.
Cap fights offer something else. A completely different gaming experience. And one that is in my opinion much better than the snub experience. Cap fights end faster, they actually feel like fights pretty often (while snub combat feels like 'slowly draining' instead of 'fighting fiercely'). These ships can get hit and if you hit with them, you hit hard and... the most important part is: you have an impact.
You hit in a VHF? Congrats. You just drained 2 bots of... 80 (not counting the rebotting that will happen in every 3rd fight anyway).
You almost killed a VHF? He goes full dodge and docks. Another fight without an explosion. Or he thrusts for 30 k effortlessly and planetdives with a fat trollface.
In VHF, people gank like hell because it's the only way to win in a reasonable time frame. But the gank also justifies every dick move as an answer.
=> And so we go on and on and on and nearly every VHF fight leaves a bad taste.
Caps have the decency to go down, to da damage before they go down and to blow up beautifully.
So the problem is not caps.
The problem is the unattractive snub system that forces people incapable of doing snub combat to play with caps.
My solution:
Fix snub combat, and you will have much less cap spam because many players would not feel like "I have no chance in the snub segment, I fly something they cannot touch.".
I agree with almost everything here. This pretty much sums up why Caps of all kinds are a decent addition. Except, I think the skill comes with playing for a lot longer and learning how to map your keyboard to your own style correctly. 99% of people in snubs (whether it be LF, HF, VHF or SHF) use mines and a CD, most of these again to good effect. The problem is, the server nowadays doesn't really give much lee-way for those that aren't that great at PvP and they'll just get killed over and over again until they can learn what style suits them best. This is difficult though when you can't last long enough to figure out how to do better against an ace fighter.
Anyway, back to the subject of Caps...I play an Outcast a lot, being high ranking in CL} and what-not. I see many indy's start out in their CSV's, work up to a Sabre then mission spam for their life going through Gunboat, Destroyer and then finally the Battleship. What i've learnt from this is that I think people are just bored of using fighters. Yeah sure bombers are a good variant and a few skilled pilots (you have to be to fly one) at once can down almost any Cap BUT...I think you see so many because people get bored of snubs and then because everyone has a Cap these days, they want to join in. And why not? Money isn't hard to get if you're motivated enough to trade, missions aren't too bad and become easy to gain millions in a matter of hours.
You can't stop it. Nerfing them, SRPing them, bumping up price or whatever is just not viable at all. It also seems proportional to the areas you play in. Liberty is the biggest and most popular house so therefore you see a lot of Caps. Therefore, because of RP regarding the Rheinland and Liberty conflicts, Rheinlands population is mainly caps to combat Liberty without being ganked to hell every time. If there's going to be a solution, it's making fighters more fun so that players boredom of snub flying in Vanilla Servers is overridden. How to do that? Don't even ask. Obviously that's opinion based though.
Maybe one day people will get bored of using Caps, who knows. Unlikely but it's not ruining the server, there's still abundance of fighters etc. People still like flying them, just not as many as before due to the game being old and many people playing for years. Factions are a good way to get round this, their ranking systems sometimes limit ship use etc and encouraging fleets that have to consists of fighters as well as Caps. Again, this depends on the ZoI of the faction though.
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R, caps are right now a pale shadow of what they should be. If you think they are a problem at the moment then i suggest you stop flying into their point blank ranges, as most of them cant hit jack anything BUT strafe range.
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