So hey, about the recent Zoner drama. Use it much?

[GTB]

Well to be fair the ZA would be long gone from 74 if it wasn't for their POB being near impossible to kill. They are only about 4-5 members I've read, which is kinda comical to see all this fuss getting made over such a small group of players that's vastly outnumbered by other official factions attacking them.

I think 74 should still be a Zoner Guard system, don't understand what lead to it no longer being one? It even has Guard NPC flying about in it still. And if it was still a Guard system, the ZA would have no right to build POB and blockade the system from other zoners entering.

[RedEclipse]

It would be funny if the ZA now started to make ingame ties to freelancer, bounty hunter and mercenary groups to defend their little safe heaven. More bases, more pew pew and turn 74 into a fortress. Basically, anyone who is not friendly, cannot go there. At all. Would be damn awesome to see what the reaction to that would be.

It's already started since first conflict. Threat with lolgates brigand is a good example which even was recorded on forums. ZA has ability to support their bases only because of alts. And c'mon Spazzy - they're showing balls to the rest of Zoners only because of new feature, which ain't balanced at this moment. finita la comedia will happen, it's depends not on factions, but Cannon decision.

[Jack_Henderson]

People tend to ignore the reality in O74 at the moment.

I have been reading the rage-chats and what leaders plotted in the faction leader channel and though that O74 would be really, really bad. I bought a Corvo, and went there yesterday.

You know what? There was not much to complain about.

• all ZA bases are "neutral"
  
• neutral means "they only shoot when shot at"
  
• they were dockable for a Zoner IDed, unregistered indie like me
  
• the enemies that blockade the base could hug it without punishment
  

To sum it up: at the current status, there is no reason to complain about anything from the pov of the attacking parties.

Oh, ye. Actually there is something to complain, from an irp Zoner pov, though.

The guns do not protect O74 against the Nomad threat now. And that is what they should do. And that is why Zoners (also the official ones in O74) should be against a destruction (and my O74 char is)! From my understanding, the O74 Zoner would welcome the protective power (purely irply!). It is a mighty fortress to keep the aliens out. Now Order and AI and random pirate faction (?) try to dismantle the protective wall, place laws there and no-fly zones, and shoot at Zoners like bawses if they get the idea they could be "supporting ZA! Destroy!". Hm, could actually only be a Zoner who does not like foreigners to strip all people living in O74 of the protection. And the Zoner officials in O74 meekly nod to the foreign bullying.

So, let me clarify: I am no fan of what the ZA did and I'll not say that their rp or actions are great. I'll see when I have been in O74 for a little longer, but the ZA I talked to yesterday spoke very good English, were capable at what they were doing and had a good grasp of the situation as well as Freelancer.

So if people try to portray the ZA as a group of half-illiterate lolwuts, I at least met and talked to two of them yesterday who were neither half-illiterate nor lolwuts.

I also want to clarify that my chars will likely end defending these installations, but not because I love ZA. They will shoot AI and Order and Pirates and whatever there is because in my opinion a Zoner would not allow foreigners to destroy the only thing that is between their homes and the Nomads.

Irply, what AI and Order are doing atm looks and feels like a power grab for O74 influence, backed or at least tolerated by a relatively weak Zoner O74 group who is afraid of losing power to another independent Zoner group.

Zoners decided to leave the houses and live with nomads next door in the completely hostile edges of the known universe because they did not like to be rule by others, pushed around, etc. Now other outward influences try to destroy the installations that keep Nomad raids out (I know it, I led a few of the nomad indie raids. The platforms are devastating for snub raids). That's not only the same bullying that made Zoners leave, but also an actual security risk that these attackers are willingly putting on every Zoner living in O74.

So much for the explanation of my motives. Can't allow people to go like: "He's supporting ZA! No rp any more! Ignore and shoot him!"


So... there was notthing to complain about ZA yesterday when I was there.

There was, however about their sworn enemies.

I jump in, Zoner-IFF [AI] cruiser sitting at a ZA base, afk-guarding it. I bet in order to raise the shield for incoming transports, but I'll have to try it out first on a transport. Zoner IFF, so that in case the base is Zoner-IFFed (and not neutral until shot at as now) he can be there, even though he is a clear hostile. Hm... a rule comes to my mind that has something to do with repsheets.

Anyway, after seeing the siege-tactics for less than 30 minutes, I know why ZA set the bases to "fully hostile unless registered" in the past. I think, I would have done the same again yesterday bc of the AI cruisers exploiting the settings against the owner. It is the only way atm to deal with these "base idling transport interceptors". Looking at other bases... Malaclypse Freeport was also set to "fully hostile" bc a few trolls took advantage of the normal setting. They never got that much pressure for it. And I dare say many base owners would react that way.

Anyway, the strategy to end the drama is relatively easy and I have tried to communicate it often. I'll suggest it irply, though.

And until then, I hope someone returns the rp in O74, bc at the moment, the "war, no rp" statement is true for more than one side, it seems on a first impression.

Now go (rage! He is assisting ZA! Ignore & shoot!)

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+ IMG| DISCORD: https://discord.gg/TWrGWjp
+ IMG| IS RECRUITING: Click to find out more!

[GTB]

I have been reading the rage-chats and what leaders plotted in the faction leader channel and though that O74 would be really, really bad. I bought a Corvo, and went there yesterday.

You know what? There was not much to complain about.

all ZA bases are "neutral"
neutral means "they only shoot when shot at"
they were dockable for a Zoner IDed, unregistered indie like me
the enemies that blockade the base could hug it without punishment


To sum it up: at the current status, there is no reason to complain about anything from the pov of the attacking parties.

Oh, ye. Actually there is something to complain, from an irp Zoner pov, though.

The guns do not protect O74 against the Nomad threat now. And that is what they should do. And that is why Zoners (also the official ones in O74) should be against a destruction (and my O74 char is)! From my understanding, the O74 Zoner would welcome the protective power (purely irply!). It is a mighty fortress to keep the aliens out. Now Order and AI and random pirate faction (?) try to dismantle the protective wall, place laws there and no-fly zones, and shoot at Zoners like bawses if they get the idea they could be "supporting ZA! Destroy!". Hm, could actually only be a Zoner who does not like foreigners to strip all people living in O74 of the protection. And the Zoner officials in O74 meekly nod to the foreign bullying.

That's pretty much the way I'm seeing it as well. Also went in O74 for a look yesterday on my FreeLancer trader and wasn't attacked by the bases or ZA players for entering the system, so didn't see a problem and looks to me like other offical zoner factions are simply miffed the ZA have those strategic bases their (instead of them having them), which is a little laughable because those POB didn't appear over-night.

Now that ZA have shown they are willing to settle this peacefully by taking this step, official zoner factions should be making an effort also to sort this out so the base turrents can be turned back on to combat Nomads and be inRP. But seems they have no intention of sorting anything out with ZA, apart from making demands they already know ZA isn't going to agree with, such as removing their bases or dismantling it's turrets. As I said before, this is purely about those player bases and some wanting them gone... all the rest is bull.

[Occam Razor]

That's pretty much the way I'm seeing it as well. Also went in O74 for a look yesterday on my FreeLancer trader and wasn't attacked by the bases or ZA players for entering the system, so didn't see a problem and looks to me like other offical zoner factions are simply miffed the ZA have those strategic bases their (instead of them having them), which is a little laughable because those POB didn't appear over-night.

Now that ZA have shown they are willing to settle this peacefully by taking this step, official zoner factions should be making an effort also to sort this out so the base turrents can be turned back on to combat Nomads and be inRP. But seems they have no intention of sorting anything out with ZA, apart from making demands they already know ZA isn't going to agree with, such as removing their bases or dismantling it's turrets. As I said before, this is purely about those player bases and some wanting them gone... all the rest is bull.

The problem is that a faction which proved not to be trustable have the power over the entries of the 74 system. They had been given 2 chances and failed both times, so now, everyone demands either deconstruction of the bases or handing them over to a trustable zoner faction, like phoenix.

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"Common sense is the best distributed commodity in the world, for every man is convinced that he is well supplied with it."
René Descartes

[Thyrzul]

And yes, If phoenix were using its own ID I wouldn't give a damn, but they represent the zoner faction at the moment, so I do give a damn, what they do affects my characters, all of them has nothing to do with ZA so if indies had the power to put them on trial for the stuff that they have broken I would have done so long time ago, Instead im wasting my time of trying to telling both parties to quit this shi* and they just carry on, I'm picking on the phoenix because they ARE official, and ZA are not, they have more responsibilites while they carry the zoner flag.

Indeed, they represent the Zoner NPCs and as such they are responsible for them, they care for them, so it is understandable that they do not want just anybody they don't trust being able to lock down the system. How your own character relates to this is entirely up to you, your character can agree or disagree, and his actions will have an impact on him, he will face the consequences of those.

You claim not having to do anything with ZA, yet you seem to try to defend them at all costs while Udent stated Dvir is back in the ZA, as Sergeant. Funny, what is the truth then?

There is the option to challenge an official faction in it's officialdom, it is indeed a good question: Why didn't you guys use it yet?

However, the question here is, will the officials resort to crying to their admin father, when their little brother ZA took one of their toys? It would just seem weak and further show that the officials currently lack the ingame and oorp strength to deal with a new group muscling in on their territory.

The term "crying" sounds a bit too harsh in this case, and I would hardly consider such an action "weak", especially because it was the actions of the Admin Team (implementation of PoBs as what they are now) allowing the ZA to exploit those. And basically everybody lack the ingame strength to deal with anybody using these bases the way ZA do. Just try to assault their bases, not ones caught unaware...

The admins are not biased, they will follow the evidence, they will see the same oorp from the begining, a forum bullying, in-game bullying, and an official faction breaking the rules it supposed to follow, I hardly believe that.

They will see all, not just the "sins" of Phoenix. They will also see all the ooRP, metagaming, powergaming, and game mechanics exploitation and a bunch of indies breaking the rules they supposed to follow. Because as you said, the admins are not biased.

It would be funny if the ZA now started to make ingame ties to freelancer, bounty hunter and mercenary groups to defend their little safe heaven. More bases, more pew pew and turn 74 into a fortress. Basically, anyone who is not friendly, cannot go there. At all. Would be damn awesome to see what the reaction to that would be.

Would be interesting to see indeed, but I could expect many ppl go shout ooRP, like they do now (and many with reason), and if Admins think things went too far already, they may intervene at that point.

I think 74 should still be a Zoner Guard system, don't understand what lead to it no longer being one?

As far as I know it was a guard system of the Omicroners, with they being gone, it no longer operates as such.

You know what? There was not much to complain about.

• all ZA bases are "neutral"
  
• neutral means "they only shoot when shot at"
  
• they were dockable for a Zoner IDed, unregistered indie like me
  
• the enemies that blockade the base could hug it without punishment
  

To sum it up: at the current status, there is no reason to complain about anything from the pov of the attacking parties.

Oh, ye. Actually there is something to complain, from an irp Zoner pov, though.

The guns do not protect O74 against the Nomad threat now. And that is what they should do. And that is why Zoners (also the official ones in O74) should be against a destruction (and my O74 char is)! From my understanding, the O74 Zoner would welcome the protective power (purely irply!). It is a mighty fortress to keep the aliens out. Now Order and AI and random pirate faction (?) try to dismantle the protective wall, place laws there and no-fly zones, and shoot at Zoners like bawses if they get the idea they could be "supporting ZA! Destroy!". Hm, could actually only be a Zoner who does not like foreigners to strip all people living in O74 of the protection. And the Zoner officials in O74 meekly nod to the foreign bullying.

From all the threads in the comm channel board, I got that ZA has once turned their bases all hostile due to first war, been told so to turn them neutral and keep them that way, short peace ensued, ending with ZA suddenly turning bases all hostile again, and by my knowledge they did so several times while denying when got accused with it. Given this it is pretty much understandable why Order and Phoenix lost their truth in ZA, and why they want to dismantle the weapon platforms, and if needed, the bases themselves too, regardless of them currently being neutral or not. With such an unpredictable adversary, you can never know when those will become hostile to all again, the only way to make sure they won't is to remove them. (Yup, basically what Occam Razor said too but this time with my words.)

Should the ZA been using their stations as they claimed to be, and I guess as they really intended to use them in the first place, not as a secret nomad material storage, not as a blockade for the ones they don't like, but as defense installations against Nomads, there would still be peace and cooperation among all the factions involved. No wars, and even the notion that some may want to exploit the Zoner IFF to claim they are being shot for no reason when they are actually red to Zoners would be pointless as there would be no intention to do so.

But no, with their actions, ZA proven that their so called protective wall can in the same time be the walls and gates of a prison, as they have shown they neighbors that it can be used as such and they intend to use it as such.

in my opinion a Zoner would not allow foreigners to destroy the only thing that is between their homes and the Nomads.

And in the same time a Zoner would not allow a splinter group of theirs to forcefully imprison themselves in their homes.

Irply, what AI and Order are doing atm looks and feels like a power grab for O74 influence, backed or at least tolerated by a relatively weak Zoner O74 group who is afraid of losing power to another independent Zoner group.

You forgot they are backed by Phoenix too, not just Solar Runners.

Zoners decided to leave the houses and live with nomads next door in the completely hostile edges of the known universe because they did not like to be rule by others, pushed around, etc. Now other outward influences try to destroy the installations that keep Nomad raids out (I know it, I led a few of the nomad indie raids. The platforms are devastating for snub raids). That's not only the same bullying that made Zoners leave, but also an actual security risk that these attackers are willingly putting on every Zoner living in O74.

That is one way to look at. Another would be that Zoners decided to leave the houses and live with nomads next door in the completely hostile edges of the known universe because they did not like to be ruled by others, pushed around, etc. Now a splinter group of them emerging from god knows where has pulled up defensive installations at the two entrances of O74, claiming to protect Zoners from Nomads, which is all good and nice up until the point their nomad farming operations are being revealed. Order questions them, and despite it is all against the interest of the common Zoner to go on bad terms with their most valuable ally out in those hostile Omicrons, knowing that they have those installations, this militaristic splinter group goes rogue against all odds, turning on Order and the rest of the Zoners while in the same time claiming to defend them from those "terrorists". And with the power they have now, they feel they are entitled to claim things such as ownership over Livadia and eventually the whole system, trying to enforce these claims with demands and eventually boarding Livadia itself. They form a paramilitary terrorizing the local population while spreading propaganda around how they try to defend them from the outside attackers, and keeping control of those border stations, which ones shoot whomever these paramilitary Zoners want them to shoot. That's not only the same bullying that made Zoners leave, but also an actual security risk that these "defenders" are willingly putting on every Zoner living in O74.

I jump in, Zoner-IFF [AI] cruiser sitting at a ZA base, afk-guarding it. I bet in order to raise the shield for incoming transports, but I'll have to try it out first on a transport. Zoner IFF, so that in case the base is Zoner-IFFed (and not neutral until shot at as now) he can be there, even though he is a clear hostile. Hm... a rule comes to my mind that has something to do with repsheets.

The problem is that it is not hostile to all Zoners, only to a group decided to act differently than the rest. How would you solve the issue to have them hostile to ZA but not to the rest?

Anyway, after seeing the siege-tactics for less than 30 minutes, I know why ZA set the bases to "fully hostile unless registered" in the past. I think, I would have done the same again yesterday bc of the AI cruisers exploiting the settings against the owner. It is the only way atm to deal with these "base idling transport interceptors". Looking at other bases... Malaclypse Freeport was also set to "fully hostile" bc a few trolls took advantage of the normal setting. They never got that much pressure for it. And I dare say many base owners would react that way.

I agree, exploits like these indeed gives them good reason to make those platforms shoot all, and AI should not try to exploit this. But then the problem is that ZA uses the same ID and IFF as other factions the AI are actually neutral to, or maybe even friendly/allied. I could even say if the ZA would have not turned the AI against themselves, they wouldn't exploit their IFF now. But that does not mean I agree with it, nor disagree.

That's pretty much the way I'm seeing it as well. Also went in O74 for a look yesterday on my FreeLancer trader and wasn't attacked by the bases or ZA players for entering the system, so didn't see a problem and looks to me like other offical zoner factions are simply miffed the ZA have those strategic bases their (instead of them having them), which is a little laughable because those POB didn't appear over-night.

The "didn't appear over-night" part has been explained already, during construction the ZA did not seem to be hostile, the first issues came with usage, not construction, and by then they had all their bases at Core4.

Now that ZA have shown they are willing to settle this peacefully by taking this step, official zoner factions should be making an effort also to sort this out so the base turrents can be turned back on to combat Nomads and be inRP. But seems they have no intention of sorting anything out with ZA, apart from making demands they already know ZA isn't going to agree with, such as removing their bases or dismantling it's turrets. As I said before, this is purely about those player bases and some wanting them gone... all the rest is bull.

They had intentions to sort out stuff with ZA, they made attempts to sort it out with ZA, multiple times, at first with terms you are suggesting, and it took several attempts for them to finally reach the point where they demand from ZA no less than what they demand from them now. For an agreement to happen you need two parties to agree upon, and then actually adhere to the deal as well, given this, you can guess who didn't agree or follow the agreement.

Of course they want them gone, and they got pretty much inRP reason to want them gone as ZA gave them plenty.

I can imagine a strategy where they turn everybody close to them against them at first, earn their mistrust, then when the whole got enough noise on the forums so others who rarely visit that part of space will want to check with their own eyes what the hell is actually going on, suddenly act all innocent, the saint who actually wants to settle the things on a peaceful way (despite their previous actions). The ones freshly joining will only see how said they are and will consider their enemies evil and defamatory for speaking lies about how bad they are while actually they aren't. In the end, the close minority, who have been part of the whole from start and had to deal with them on a daily basis will hate them, while the majority who have been far from the events and joined to spectate at a later point will actually favor them over their haters, resulting in a community-wide opposition where they actually are part of the majority. Note, that this is just a (conspiracy) theory, based on a few comments and posts here and there.

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[MartoGuy]

The problem is that a faction which proved not to be trustable have the power over the entries of the 74 system. They had been given 2 chances and failed both times, so now, everyone demands either deconstruction of the bases or handing them over to a trustable zoner faction, like phoenix.

Oh, so now just because a couple of factions don't like your RP or your play, you must now hand over all your work to them. And that is totally OK, it is not like the ZA had to build those bases and supply them trough war, sieges, no fly zones and etc. .

If the ZA is to be sanctioned it would be to the Admins to decide, not the official factions. Insisting that they surrender all their work, to a group or groups they managed to muscle out of their zone, trough not a bug on Discovery, but a feature (yes even though not fully balanced POB are a feature), seems to me just plain wrong.

In conclusion, to me, actions in game speak more than words on the forum. Reports and sanctions will be dealt with as soon, and as well, as possible by the administration team. So all the cries of lolwut, ooRP play, powergaming and metagaming, should not be used to belittle a faction (no matter how indie it is).

inb4
"Dohoho, he is a ZA™ player let us just tell him he is wrong".

[GTB]

That's pretty much the way I'm seeing it as well. Also went in O74 for a look yesterday on my FreeLancer trader and wasn't attacked by the bases or ZA players for entering the system, so didn't see a problem and looks to me like other offical zoner factions are simply miffed the ZA have those strategic bases their (instead of them having them), which is a little laughable because those POB didn't appear over-night.

Now that ZA have shown they are willing to settle this peacefully by taking this step, official zoner factions should be making an effort also to sort this out so the base turrents can be turned back on to combat Nomads and be inRP. But seems they have no intention of sorting anything out with ZA, apart from making demands they already know ZA isn't going to agree with, such as removing their bases or dismantling it's turrets. As I said before, this is purely about those player bases and some wanting them gone... all the rest is bull.

The problem is that a faction which proved not to be trustable have the power over the entries of the 74 system. They had been given 2 chances and failed both times, so now, everyone demands either deconstruction of the bases or handing them over to a trustable zoner faction, like phoenix.

If I was ZA, sorry but I'd self-kill those bases before handing them over to another official Zoner faction. Why should they hand those bases over to your faction, when they did all the hard work building them? That's wrong, it just sounds like bully-boy tactics to try get their bases. If ZA end up quitting, giving in, I hope they have the sense to destroy their POB first so no other Zoner faction gains anything from them.

[Quiron]

Before its going to a wrong direction, I would like to tell that this whole thing is not about getting free bases.

InRP (!) our goal is to ensure the free passage through 74 by removing those installations because ZA showed that they would set them full-hostile in case of trouble. Again, inRP (!) they are unreliable. No need to create conspir[a]cies.

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[Thyrzul]

TIf I was ZA, sorry but I'd self-kill those bases before handing them over to another official Zoner faction. Why should they hand those bases over to your faction, when they did all the hard work building them? That's wrong, it just sounds like bully-boy tactics to try get their bases. If ZA end up quitting, giving in, I hope they have the sense to destroy their POB first so no other Zoner faction gains anything from them.

Self kill could be a reasonable option too, yes. The main point of the whole mess is that Phoenix, Order and allies doesn't want armed stations to block both entrances whenever and from whoever a splinter group considered untrustworthy by them wants to. ZA proven their untrustworthiness several times to them already, it is just logical Phoenix and Order want to prevent a possible but unpredictable and also unwanted scenario in the future, and want to make sure those stations won't go all hostile again, against all agreements they might have between themselves and ZA. If taking over the stations is a solution for that issue, I bet they will be okay with that, if the destruction of the base is the solution, then with that.

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