So the status threads are all locked.

[Kazinsal]

As someone who already does a fair bit behind the scenes here and now has more work to do because of this change, I don't really approve of this.

If this is a result of factions whose engagement rules are based off of their diplomacy chart, then instead of protecting their official diplomacy charts, they should be simply punished and stripped of their official faction status for abusing their ID rules.

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Retired, permanently.

[Xelon]

Well I am of two minds on this.

TBH I haven't been keeping the Faction Status thread of the BAF updated anyway.
Rather use the Wiki for that, and well Rosters change etc. probs just make a Thread with a linky to the wiki so it's easier for people.

I'm guessing that the Faction Status thread should only be changed if you have some major RP development going on.

* Xelon runs of to update the BAF history and diplomacy.

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“This font is good people said, this font is awesome others said, I say it works well enough to waste 2 seconds of your life reading this.”

[Trogdor]

*** Official factions... ( Amused ) ***

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[Zelot]

Player factions should just split the roster out into a different thread. Other things in the faction status, like ZOI, ship allowances, docking, and diplomacy were part of what was approved by the admins during faction approval and are not up to the factions to change on a whim. Too many times in the past we have seen official factions change information to give themselves an advantage. All this, "We are faction leaders not children, how can you not trust us" is crap. Seriously, as a former admin and faction leader, I know better than most. You can't trust faction leaders farther than you can throw them. I happen to remember a string of faction leaders changing tech grants in their status and then reporting players who they had given permission to in order to get them sanctioned. That was the reason the rule was changed and the status threads were supposed to be locked, if I am remembering the rule change correctly. If this is only about the roster, just put it in a separate thread and pin it in the subforum. If there is something else faction leaders want to change in their thread without staff approval, I am curious to know what it could be?

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[SnakThree]

Zelot is right. Information such as roster, rank, promotion criteria, code of conducts and all that can be put on seperate thread, on google docs.

It was an old rule that nobody abided and admins didn't enforce it upon factions. Trust must go both ways, but if one side abuses it admins have the right to enforce an old rule to keep the order.

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[Lonely Werewolf]

Some aren't capable of adhering to reasonable boundaries, though, which is my guess at why this has been implemented.

*cough*

Don't worry, I saw your initial clue *Winks*

And onto the main subject matter. I would have hoped for more trust personally. Reading what Zelot has written, I myself would never have done anything even close to what he is suggesting, however I have seen faction not act as they should 100% of the time and could imagine that very rarely it could pose a problem. With the tech example you gave that one specifically can't be abused anymore, which to me doesn't leave many other serious issues. If a faction had changed their ZOI to something drastic for example I had thought the admins would only THEN step in. However I can sort of see where this is coming from, I'm not particularly happy, but can live with it.

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Information | Recruitment | Message Dump | Roster | Feedback

[Rodent]

Another instance of unrelated people getting shafted because Das Wilde cannot restrain itself in any reasonable manner.

[Divine]

Player factions should just split the roster out into a different thread. Other things in the faction status, like ZOI, ship allowances, docking, and diplomacy were part of what was approved by the admins during faction approval and are not up to the factions to change on a whim. Too many times in the past we have seen official factions change information to give themselves an advantage. All this, "We are faction leaders not children, how can you not trust us" is crap. Seriously, as a former admin and faction leader, I know better than most. You can't trust faction leaders farther than you can throw them. I happen to remember a string of faction leaders changing tech grants in their status and then reporting players who they had given permission to in order to get them sanctioned. That was the reason the rule was changed and the status threads were supposed to be locked, if I am remembering the rule change correctly. If this is only about the roster, just put it in a separate thread and pin it in the subforum. If there is something else faction leaders want to change in their thread without staff approval, I am curious to know what it could be?

When my faction does change its political position in regards to one other faction and/or group, I'll edit our diplomacy to reflect that, even if our ID ingame does this not. This is what RP is about, keeping things on the move. If I'd want to play a box, I'd play with a freaking box, actually. So when we'd go on neutral terms with the GRN| by player interaction and roleplay done, then I cannot change my own freaking diplomacy in terms of RP? Because why? It was not what once was approved by the Admin-team of what this-and-that official faction should be?
In return that means an Admin-vote could deny my intented diplomatic change in positions, rendering quite some amounts of player-driven-RP void. Given that, they're then suddenly dictating what my factions RP actually should be. Bc someone thought to know my factions RP better than the leader and those involved with that faction?
So why bother at all? Should I have them vote on the intented change before we actually do the RP between the players? Bc if it's in the end not granted, then we've just wasted effort and time. Don't come around saying "but you had RP interactions" bc we all know we're mostly not just doing RP for the sake of it being done, but to expand our own factions box.
Same goes for Zones of Operations/Interest, some people restrict their operating territory more than others of the same ID, eventually. But such a shortcoming they might want to change, on their own that is, bc they've restricted themselves on their own in the first run.
How about tech-agreements between player-factions? That'd need adjustment to the status-thread too.

So I take from what you said, you'd want us to outsource everything related to that to seperate threads. But then again you've mentioned that faction diplomacy for example is/was part of what a faction was approved as.

Quite honestly, this new idea someone of the Admin-team got is nothing but stupid. And alas, you'll sure now tell me that others know actually better than the rest of us, as usual.
If there's a problem with faction-leaders abusing the current system, than punish the offenders, not everyone. But I take going for everyone is the logical choice in your eyes, just like pretending bc an exploit exists, everyone is using it, so everyone needs to be punished.

Why I'm even still bother with this place really is beyond my understanding,...

//Edit:

... Other things in the faction status, like ... and diplomacy were part of what was approved by the admins during faction approval and are not up to the factions to change on a whim. ...

Engaging all red I see.
Good RP, best RP, approved RP by admins I take?
Don't anyone ever dare to not shoot anything red he got on scanners, bc obviously we're not allowed to change our diplomacies at any occasion.
So... Everybody engage at will.

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User was banned for: http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=151485
Time left: (Permanent)

[Rodent]

Player factions should just split the roster out into a different thread. Other things in the faction status, like ZOI, ship allowances, docking, and diplomacy were part of what was approved by the admins during faction approval and are not up to the factions to change on a whim. Too many times in the past we have seen official factions change information to give themselves an advantage. All this, "We are faction leaders not children, how can you not trust us" is crap. Seriously, as a former admin and faction leader, I know better than most. You can't trust faction leaders farther than you can throw them. I happen to remember a string of faction leaders changing tech grants in their status and then reporting players who they had given permission to in order to get them sanctioned. That was the reason the rule was changed and the status threads were supposed to be locked, if I am remembering the rule change correctly. If this is only about the roster, just put it in a separate thread and pin it in the subforum. If there is something else faction leaders want to change in their thread without staff approval, I am curious to know what it could be?

I'm sure you realise that the admin team when it grants a faction officialdom also grants it the right to be the representative of said NPC faction in terms of roleplay. Things like ZOI, diplomacy and the like are integral parts of representing said NPC faction. As I've stated before, some factions take it to extremes. However, it probably makes more sense for admins to just keep an eye out and deal with it if something ridiculous comes up than monitor each and every faction and the changes it makes.

The system is horribly counter-intuitive as it stands, and quite possibly you'll just get factions shrugging and leaving their information threads outdated and keeping any changes done in skype or a google doc. Observing anyone and making the system hard to deal with for everyone because a few (there's always a few) are unable to keep up decency will just cause resentment, and as a faction leader I do feel slightly annoyed that I'm apparently not trusted at all anymore to make changes to the GRN character and diplomacy in a manner that holds true to lore.

[Zelot]

Unfortunately for all the faction leaders who think they have complete control of the lore and development of their factions, they don't. That is handled by the dev team. The storyline, which to a large extent drives the rp of the server, is developed by the dev team. One of the jobs of the Admin team is to protect the storyline rp. Should the faction leaders have input? of course. Should their will be the gospel of the faction rp? No. What happens when the LN and GRN player factions make peace? Should that bind the server in that rp, disregarding the overall storyline of the server? I tend to think not. Official factions are responsible for maintaining the storyline driven rp, not taking it off in weird, unintended directions. There is a balanced to be maintained, Official factions should have flexibility for sure, and they should be able to drive the server rp, but it must be balanced against the storyline, and the Admins are the ones who decide if that balance is being maintained.

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