(04-24-2015, 11:49 AM)Gondoros Wrote: First of all "civil war"? Really, are you honestly motivating your decision on the fact that if T&T would become official it might lead to a civil war? Well this ( and more things to come) makes me think that the Admins have not read a single piece of T&T RP.
<< A bit harsh. I actually understand Garrets point of fiew stated in the next post below, even if I do not share it. >>
"The admins have to decide whether the added factions are sufficiently different than their official faction counterparts"
Well let's see then. T&T does not claim bounties, does not pirate, does not smuggle, does not break laws, does not trade with outcasts, DOES trade in Kusari, DOES get pirated ( i don't know how many Congress junkers and Marauders get pirated in Liberty, my guess not that much bordering on none), DOES get involved in humanitarian interventions, and many more.
Different enough? I would say yes. Again Admins don't seem to be aware of T&T RP.
<<< Not correct : I would like to set bounties, but as so far I have not found an official faction to back me I can not.
So I will only set individual bounties if necessary, and set blanket modifiers to our escort contracts that clearly state that NO COMBAT IS REQUIRED to gain the bonus. Only survival of the trader issuing the contract. Fun fact : The escort can even gain the bonus if he gets shot down by the pirate but enables the trader to escape successfully. >>>
"is it worth all the drama that will inevitably come about with their inclusion as an official faction. In your case, the two other Official factions have already been beset with Oorp conflicts between themselves. Adding a third would be tantamount to pouring gasoline on the server and handing you the match."
Drama? T&T has never been involved in any drama. Sure we get upset when things don't go our way, but we keep our frustration in the Skype channel, and most importantly we DO NOT act on those frustrations until we chill and clear our minds. Hence the fact that every time T&T has been put in a uncomfortable situation, we compromise, always , like always. We DO NOT rage, we DO NOT threaten. We COMPROMISE and we use diplomacy exactly for avoiding drama and unneeded flame wars. But if Admins, would read T&T RP, they would've known this already.
That "handing you the match" metaphore is out of place. Implying that T&T would ever be the cause, even more so, the final nail, of a conflict, big or small, is another proof that Admins did not read any T&T RP or info.
<< *sighs* Players are players. Actually we got drama only one day after the request, because of an encounter with LR that went against the Tinker.
I can understand that Admin dont want more flamez ... but :
I fail to see how there would be MORE drama as official faction, or LESS drama as unofficial.
The main gain of officialdom is that we can ask for faction perks and have the opportunity to ask for certain SRP that - to my knowledge and experience - are NOT available if you are NOT official.
A "simple" player gets answeres like : "sorry, server policy" , or "we dont do that" .
Tinkers is not after FR5 , blocking or controlling certain aspects ect.
I do wish to get the Haven to Core 5 ,
I do wish to be able to offer faction members a ready made REP ID , so that our diplo is the same for all ships ect.
I do wish to be able to ask the Admins for advice, or for the possibility to aim at some SRP concerning Planet Houston, or for a buff on Refugee prices ect, without simply getting the answer : "not possible, because server policy" .
And for that request we get the answer : "not possible, because server balance"
Quote:As unpleasant as this is for you to hear, the Admins feel it is in your best interests to remain unofficial. It is in the best interests of the overall community. Lastly, it is in the best interests of the Staff.
Well...
I must admit that that sentence hurt. I never realized my Tinkers where so harmful.
And Im still determined to keep on going while at the same time the moments in wich I ask myself why I still play here are more and more common.
(04-25-2015, 05:22 AM)Garrett Jax Wrote: Right, so I've reread your RP and this is what I've gleaned. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
First, I believe you claim to be an amalgam of two ID's, Freelancer and Junker. From what I gather you want the ZOI of the Freelancer ID so you can sell scrap in Kusari without getting blasted by Kusari factions, but you also want the Junker's scrap/p-scrap mining bonus that they get (or something very close). In order to 'compensate' for these positives, you have willingly allowed yourself to have a cargo restriction 700 units less than the Junker ID's, and you withhold your claim to the Pirate Train.
<< Basically : Jes. Even if most of our scrap does not go towards Samura any more.>>
So, basically, it's a Freelancer ID with the scrap/pscrap bonus and use of the Junker shipline, including their Salvager.
<< correct>>
If so, let me say that you are taking the best of two ID's with little downside for yourselves. This is the whole reason we have the one ID per faction rule. It prevents factions from sidestepping the restrictions imposed by the ID they use. The Junkers do not have the diplomatic freedom to fly through Kusari space, but you eliminate that by using the Freelancer ID. The Freelancer ID doesn't have a scrap/pscrap mining bonus, or the Junker shipline, but you eliminate that by using your Junker alts. Now, if I'm right, you want a Tinker ID which gives you everything in a nice neat little package. The sacrifices of making the move to 3600 cargo is insufficient. You don't need a Pirate train, because as your RP (that I did read btw) suggests you are not pirates, so that's no loss. It would be a wonderful OP setup for you.
<< I specifically asked to get a chance to discuss it and balance it with Administration before. I would have prefered to have the chance to talk it over, balance it, and react to Admin / Dev / Balance team as I fully understand that there are points here that would probably seen as OP.
Instead I seem to be accused of powergaming an OP faction and get a clear No.>>
Basically, you've almost achieved a neutral ID with a premium mining bonus. You don't engage in unlawful activities, so no lawful faction will come down on you. You're rep would be neutral or better with most unlawful factions in Liberty, save Xenos. Kusari lawfuls would leave you alone, and Kusari Corps would allow you dock on their bases. You'd undoubtedly be flying Salvagers, since you view yourselves as Junkers, but would expect all the other factions to view you as Freelancers, giving you the optimum ZOI. It's hard to find something to dislike in this setup.
<<< not correct, Garret : We fly blokade runs to Gallia. And even if I have not gone knocking at Charles doors every gallic Lawful player should easily be able to scan a Serenity ( bretonnian build ) ... see a Freelancer ( or Tinkers later on ) ID ... and connect the route to Champagne with blokade running. We would not even deny it, and would fight back.
Currently if we work in group we have the situation that encounters against one ID in group anre possible while the other half has different ID... awkward at the least. We want 1 ID for all activities to simplify encounters for both us and others.
Also : I DISCOURAGE the use of Salvagers !
We only use them for scrapping, and most of us rather use a CSF for that too, except in solo mining.
GARRET : WE FLY SERENITIES !
And liner class vessles for refugee transport, or freighter class vessles like the CSF for shuttle service and RP.
Also again :
I dont know how often I am to say this,
and I expect I will have to say it all my time here at DISCO :
We want other players to take a look and see : Ah, A TINKER.
Not a independent Junker, not a JM or Congress Junker, not a Freelancer .
With a very own rep, with a very own diplomacy .
EXACTLY that is what faction goal 1 is about. >>>
As far as server balance is concerned, we have enough Junker official factions. There is not enough opposition to the Junker ID right now. Xenos get ganked by everything that moves, and Hogosha hardly exist. Even if the other Official Junker factions accepted you with open arms, the server itself doesn't need another Official Junker faction, especially an OP 'hybrid' one.
So for the sake of balance, our answer is no.
I got that, thank you.
I would be content to be Freelancer faction, with a 75% core nerf on all Junker tech,
if that would give me the Tinkers ID with scrap bonus.
I would be happy to loose rep with Samura, cutting us off from Yokohama.
And I would accept but not like getting hostile to Kusari officials ( after all we support Council and possibly the Kusari exiles against Gallia and Kusari ).
I restate again : I offered balancing discussion from the start, and did not get it.
I offered several different builds, keeping the same RP background ...
and got either silence or denial.
I am not looking for the "most op build achievable" ...
I am trying to be able to get some more activity for a certain sort of teamwork trading I enjoy, while combining it with solid RP.
I would like to be able to ask for faction perks on refugee trade, and for a chance to ASK ADMINS OR DEVS FOR CHANGES WIITHOUT BEING IGNORED AS :
"not official, so : not important"
Because in my experience, that is exactly what happens .
I must say, with all my successful and failed experiences, Tinkers have always been a good bunch with guys to fly with. I find their roleplay rolling around Leeds Relief Effort very appealing and well-made, yet fun in terms of the ooRP and inRP experience. It's different, it's something new, and kudos to that.
(04-25-2015, 10:08 AM)Toris Gray Wrote: I must say, with all my successful and failed experiences, Tinkers have always been a good bunch with guys to fly with. I find their roleplay rolling around Leeds Relief Effort very appealing and well-made, yet fun in terms of the ooRP and inRP experience. It's different, it's something new, and kudos to that.
Well... you never went to Gallia with us... al that booring long range powertrading in empty space. We harras the fugitives on the way back too, indoctrinating them as junkers.
(04-25-2015, 10:08 AM)Toris Gray Wrote: I must say, with all my successful and failed experiences, Tinkers have always been a good bunch with guys to fly with. I find their roleplay rolling around Leeds Relief Effort very appealing and well-made, yet fun in terms of the ooRP and inRP experience. It's different, it's something new, and kudos to that.
Well... you never went to Gallia with us... al that booring long range powertrading in empty space. We harras the fugitives on the way back too, indoctrinating them as junkers.
Thx for the feedback :-)
Hey, poke me about possible go into Gallia. It might be interesting for one of my characters tho.
This thread went dormant again, sorry for any delays in processing.
But I´d like to announce that the deal is still on,
and as we have delivered lots of scrap to customers in the last few days we are down to less that 10k scrap in stock.
I appreciate our scrappers, and want to give you a bonus for reliant work.
Still, there have been complaints about having to post lots of pics.
I can not raise the scrap price without lowering interest for traders, and the current 3999 c/u has prooven to be a good balance for both scrappers and traders.
I will continue to offer the bonus ( // from my own trade cash ) to scrappers,
and am still offering the contest as detailed above.
The contest was mainly thought to motivate lone scrappers, even though I greet the teams working on filling up the Haven. I wanted to give Newcomers and folks who have not jet tested scrapping some reason to try, without the need to join a faction.
Im still open for feedback and suggestions, best posted here : http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=117754
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