@Malmsteen Ironically, taking away ability to mount armor on transports between 4301-5000 cargo would solve the problem (with, of course, certain exceptions, such as Bison).
(12-26-2015, 04:09 PM)astroicecream Wrote: Yeah, I observe this in my encounters too. They start bargaining with the pirate , asking why you are robbing them etc. are mostly because their Skype buds are on their way in their combat vessels. So if they start talking unrelated , blow them up.
Well, there is a two sides to this. Back when I used to fly traders around pretty often, by no means did I have any friends on their way to help me when I was caught. My characters tried to bargan, and strike up a conversation with the pirate, in attempts to soften them up a bit to lessen the price that was being asked for. Sure it wouldn't always work, but it's a legitimate RP attempt.
Nowadays when people try this, the pirates usually immediately snap at them to shut up, and start to attack the trader. They don't let them attempt to have a conversation. It looks like they're focusing more on getting credits, than actually having a sort of interaction. It's.. Boring. Really boring. To the point where when I see that happen to me, I just stay still and let them blow me up. I'm sure as heck not going to give them any satisfaction.
Sadly this isn't the case every time. Yeah, I recognize that there are a lot of traders who don't really know what they're doing, and don't work with the pirate(s) - Although as of late, the pirates have been giving the Traders less and less chance to begin with. What fun is it, when you don't have a shot at improving your situation?
(12-26-2015, 06:57 PM)FluffReborn Wrote: @Malmsteen Ironically, taking away ability to mount armor on transports between 4301-5000 cargo would solve the problem (with, of course, certain exceptions, such as Bison).
Well mate, If this will help make everyone having fun and happy here, then why not
I will always support any move or change that will end up in having all parties happy and having fun in this amazing server.
(12-26-2015, 06:46 PM)Darku Wrote:
(12-26-2015, 06:08 PM)Malmsteen Wrote: and when the developers nerf them, do you think that your situation will change?
I don't think so sir, So what about if you start checking your demands first? If you ask 20 million, ofc i will not pay.
Simple and clear, be reasonable and you might find some fun in pirating.
But if you keep demanding unbelievable amounts of money, then enjoy shooting my trader, i ll respawn and trade somewhere else.
Please revise what you do, before complaining and asking developers to ruin other people fun by nerfing this and that ....
PS: I pirated players many times more than you can imagine, and i never asked for 20 million, and maybe that's why i always get my tax and fun.
Please have a nice day! regards, Malmsteen
The demands whoever makes it higher price, they have reason. As you described you don't really like you pay pirates! Then why you are trading for? For making big toy and get the CAP VIII? 20 mill too much! When you are hauling almost 60 mill credit Ore in your 5k ship then what's the problem to pay the pirates a bit? Big demands come when pirates see those trader's using the jump hole and avoiding gate & it mostly happened when a group member get pirated then he inform others like 'hey, that [charname] pirate me he's near the gate or the middle of lanes then those traders avoid lanes and using the jump hole. Simply you pay the little cash, then pirate won't demand a high price in next time unless you avoid gate or if you still heaving mind you will never pay then get heavy transport mount it with CAP VIII & feel the power and do Q_Q
Hello @Darku , First of all, i do not have a single 5k Transport, All my transports are around 4000 to 4700 cargo space. I never said i don't like paying pirates, no ofc, i do like them to pirate me and have fun too, since i do that to others too most of the time. I like pirating a lot, but i think you missed my point. Let me give you a small example sir, I pay 16 Million for a full load of gold ore, and sell the ores for about 46 million, so my net profit is about 30 million - So tell me my friend, will you pay more than 60% of your profit to a greedy pirate? If you do, then let me tell you, i don't and i don't see anything unfair here since the pirate demand too much and there is no ceiling for that demand (Which should be really added to server rules).
About Traders avoiding the pirates and run to jump holes .... I think you might want to re-consider this sir, Actually, i don't know what exactly you mean, so do you mean that i should come to you in my trading ship and pass exactly where you are so you feel satisfied and pirate me? IF i used the jumphole because i received an intel telling me that YOU are at the gates, then do you think that this is bad? I truely fail to understand why people so angry and upset about traders running away to avoid the camping pirates !!!! should the traders come to you and tell you ""HEY, come pirate me mate""" ? I do not think so.
Pirates should suffer to find a good target so they can rob him/her, AND victums should suffer to find an alternative routes so they can escape and achieve their targets... Get used to it, and get over this idea of complaining about traders taking jump holes ... Comon
PS: You say a trader should pay little price and then will be left alone... Also you say that pirates demand high price because the traders run away to jumpholes .... so hey, what about bringing some of pirates around you and start covering the lanes, gates and jumpholes? it's called "Teamwork" and i can assure for you that NO ONE escape from me and my fellow pirate friends when we do that.
In short, there are bad traders and there are bad pirates. Both sides can abuse their rights and act like pineapple raiders. Myself, I barely punish traders with more than 1-3 million creds, depending on what affiliation they have (I also keep an eye onto what kind ship is obtained), reflecting my character's approach towards X or Y faction.
What I don't like the most is silent traders that are not active at all - or, otherwise, they start to cruise without any word. Some of them even try to shoot away without any word, but... you know what obviously happens.
Each players actions are a function of their past experiences in Discovery, and sadly I find many of these types of traders just haven't had the introduction to Disco/past interactions that open them up to pirate interaction.
A while back, I used to pirate /a lot/ with a particular approach of "RP or dai." For probably three or four months, when I pirated I would never ask for any money. Instead, I would go out of my way to throw the trader off guard and make an RP demand (demanding security codes for a particular base, or kidnapping them to a certain area etc). The results of this were pretty interesting.
It polarised the population of traders I encountered even more than usual. Some, presumably confused, would continue to ask me how much money I wanted... ending up in them getting destroyed. Some would play along with the RP only to begin shooting once they realised I wasn't going to go away within a few minutes (some of them died). Others were natural RPers, and seeing anything other than the usual approach signalled to them there was a potential "talkative" way out of death.
Others, more tellingly and importantly in my opinion, would begin with the "wat u want" RP only to suddenly realise the situation and launch into "Full super saiyan RP" mode and show what they were really capable of. Why did this happen? My opinion on the matter is that either, until that point and if they were new, they hadn't realised what RP could be done or were't confident enough to challenge the pirate on an RP level. Giving them a "walkthrough" to potential options and suddenly they all kinds of avenues were being explored. Those that were not new suddenly saw something more interesting to do than "dock, go to, dock" and without their credit stash being explicitly targeted probably didn't a direct threat to the last 30 mins/hours of trading activity. This isn't to say there wasn't a threat to their credits. They just didn't seem to realise it explicitly.
Of course, there were also our favourite - the silent runners. All I have to say is mercy has a time and place, but not in those moments.
Why am I bothering to write this? In my opinion, the RP being offered by both traders and pirates feeds off each other but whichever side of the encounter you are on at the time - spice things up for the other and take an approach to surprise them. Hit them with the unexpected and you may be surprised. Traders have their part to play, and of course it would be great to see them develop new styles of responding. But to pirates I say, we should embrace a mission of teasing the RP from the traders by creating incentives for them to roleplay their way out of situations. Sure, a monetary focus can still be held - but I find "teasing" an RP/talkative avenue of escape and then honouring it if the trader discovers and uses it means that the same player in future encounters is much more responsive.
Late Christmas gift for everyone since this is not first or second or even third time I see similar thread.
Let me tell you in a nutshell what will happen here over time:
Traders will blame pirates for too high demands and not giving them chance to RP and interaction because "majority of pirates are 10milordai types", what caused reaction from traders which don´t want to RP with or pay pirates.
Pirates will blame traders for silently thrusting away and not paying, or just stalling during RP to call their mates which then hunt/gank pirates with capships, what caused reaction from pirates to not giving much time for RP.
Then both sides will argue who started this circle of detrimental behaviour without any ability to prove it because it is matter of personal opinion (also hint - circle has no start...) while few voices of reason will be lost in flood of shouting and blaming.
So here, now I saved you all lot of time wasted on arguing here, now you can log and play game itself instead. You are welcome.
(12-26-2015, 04:09 PM)astroicecream Wrote: Yeah, I observe this in my encounters too. They start bargaining with the pirate , asking why you are robbing them etc. are mostly because their Skype buds are on their way in their combat vessels. So if they start talking unrelated , blow them up.
Well, there is a two sides to this. Back when I used to fly traders around pretty often, by no means did I have any friends on their way to help me when I was caught. My characters tried to bargan, and strike up a conversation with the pirate, in attempts to soften them up a bit to lessen the price that was being asked for. Sure it wouldn't always work, but it's a legitimate RP attempt.
Nowadays when people try this, the pirates usually immediately snap at them to shut up, and start to attack the trader. They don't let them attempt to have a conversation. It looks like they're focusing more on getting credits, than actually having a sort of interaction. It's.. Boring. Really boring. To the point where when I see that happen to me, I just stay still and let them blow me up. I'm sure as heck not going to give them any satisfaction.
Sadly this isn't the case every time. Yeah, I recognize that there are a lot of traders who don't really know what they're doing, and don't work with the pirate(s) - Although as of late, the pirates have been giving the Traders less and less chance to begin with. What fun is it, when you don't have a shot at improving your situation?
Yeah, This^^^
If your Pirate RP is "Pay2milordie" "PayNowPayNow!" while constantly shooting me, I'd rather run and get blown up. That kind of RP is boring and frustrating at best and makes for almost a Non-interaction. At least make it interesting, ask questions, find out who you are pirating, allow for some haggling, ask for an unusual demand that would make for an interesting character development. Monologue a bit. Slow it down some. Realize that a lot of players can't type as fast as you, and may actually be looking for a chance to RP but can't spit it out in 30 seconds or less. Basically, don't only pirate to make credits.
Also, I enjoy playing traders in an encounter when I feel like I have an equal chance to "Pay, Run, or Fight". During an encounter once any of those options get eliminated, the excitement of being hunted is gone and then the only thing left to hope for is a enjoyable interaction. Unfortunately, ship balancing seems to be going the way of eliminating the "Run or Fight" options already. While I do understand trying to encourage more piracy, this also lessens the appeal of playing a trading character as a RP character and not just using one to grind credits while avoiding interaction because it never ends up being enjoyable.
(12-26-2015, 07:32 PM)Laura C. Wrote: Late Christmas gift for everyone since this is not first or second or even third time I see similar thread.
Let me tell you in a nutshell what will happen here over time:
Traders will blame pirates for too high demands and not giving them chance to RP and interaction because "majority of pirates are 10milordai types", what caused reaction from traders which don´t want to RP with or pay pirates.
Pirates will blame traders for silently thrusting away and not paying, or just stalling during RP to call their mates which then hunt/gank pirates with capships, what caused reaction from pirates to not giving much time for RP.
Then both sides will argue who started this circle of detrimental behaviour without any ability to prove it because it is matter of personal opinion (also hint - circle has no start...) while few voices of reason will be lost in flood of shouting and blaming.
So here, now I saved you all lot of time wasted on arguing here, now you can log and play game itself instead. You are welcome.
For every stupid trader who'd rather die than either consider paying anything, there's an equally stupid "2milordie" pirate.
I'm a trader and I usually pay any reasonable demands. I'll try to barter and talk my way out of it, but that's RP. If, however, I'm 2 jumps out and I get some pirate demanding 75% of my cargo's worth on a half hour run, I'm going to baulk at it. That's just economics. He is, IMHO, being unreasonable and it's quicker for me to redo the run and give him the finger at the same time.
What we need is less intransigent pirates and less intransigent traders.
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