Discovery Freelancer Patch 4.88.6 Capital Ship Changes

[Inferno]

So the Overlord was shown as something else for a period of time?

[Gensec]

Good day forum members. I'm not very good at English, and use an interpreter, and I hope that it will not fail.
Balance Patch is always good, but if it really balances ships and weapons. But this patch breaks some basics of the game.
1. Must always be respected ratio maneuverability and armor. If more armor the less maneuverability.
2. As for weapons is the energy consumption balance and firepower. That is, if you consume more energy then causes more damage.

But with the release of the patch most of the ships and weapons have become unbalanced. Below I will give specific data, namely, we will focus on coalition ships.

Coalition gunboat before the patch was previously very balanced, namely weight and dimensional characteristics of firepower. 108000 armor and maneuverability lower than gunboats border worlds 105000 armor. 8 guns balanced with low power core. Now it turns out that less armor and less maneuverability is your balance? Border worlds gunboat has 115,000 armor and much more manoeuvrable gunboats coalition with armor 98000, I will not mention the other ships. Think about it, and I hope that the coalition will return gunboats options above.

Coalition destroyer weight and dimensions characteristics was so unbalanced in terms of maneuverability, and now cut on the damage and armor. For example destroyer coalition of smaller and armor than many other cruisers, for example kusari destroyer, Gammu AI cruiser, Liberty Cruiser, Core destroyer, and many others, but it is lower than the maneuverability of all of these. Think about that after the patch became a ship does not fit, namely agility like a heavy but energy core, armor and damage output like the light cruiser. I believe that the need for a minimum balance to be reset, and to add better maneuverability not lower than the rest, and with such armor weight.

Carrier coalition does not correspond to its characteristics, maneuverability and armor, with its size and maneuverability of his armor should be within 2500000-2700000. And now it is the hulking ship with very low armor. We need to balance it.

Continuing the theme of the balance of maneuverability and armor, and even the class of the ship I want to draw your attention to the example of the fact that the Order of the carrier has more maneuverability than most cruisers. Outcast gunboat has 8 guns 125000 armor and maneuverability is higher than the other ships with armor of 95,000 and above. There are many examples where there is no balance.

As for weapons is a simple example, a comparison of cruising turret Damage/Energy coalition 2400/8000, order 2500/7500, liberty 2400/7000, outcast 2500/8000. It's not exactly balance.

I see that the ships and weapons Coalition greatly slashed, and even ID the coalition spans 6-cell space in the hold, why is it so I do not understand. I hope that my appeal will be left without attention.

[Titan*]

first its very hard to understand your words.

Coalition gunboat before the patch was previously very balanced, namely weight and dimensional characteristics of firepower. 108000 armor and maneuverability lower than gunboats border worlds 105000 armor. 8 guns balanced with low power core. Now it turns out that less armor and less maneuverability is your balance? Border worlds gunboat has 115,000 armor and much more manoeuvrable gunboats coalition with armor 98000, I will not mention the other ships. Think about it, and I hope that the coalition will return gunboats options above.

You say coalition gunboat weak compared to montante? No,montante can't even fire all guns to backward also coalition gunboat have more firepower

Coalition destroyer weight and dimensions characteristics was so unbalanced in terms of maneuverability, and now cut on the damage and armor. For example destroyer coalition of smaller and armor than many other cruisers, for example kusari destroyer, Gammu AI cruiser, Liberty Cruiser, Core destroyer, and many others, but it is lower than the maneuverability of all of these. Think about that after the patch became a ship does not fit, namely agility like a heavy but energy core, armor and damage output like the light cruiser. I believe that the need for a minimum balance to be reset, and to add better maneuverability not lower than the rest, and with such armor weight.

Coalition destroyer smallest destroyer in the game, you are comparing it with medium cruisers you are making mistake. Coalition Destroyer best anti-battleship ship in the game.
Light Cruisers or Destroyers will lose to heavier cruisers in duels otherwise destroyers will rule the battles, you need coordinated group of destroyers to take down group of medium cruiser/heavy cruiser.

Carrier coalition does not correspond to its characteristics, maneuverability and armor, with its size and maneuverability of his armor should be within 2500000-2700000. And now it is the hulking ship with very low armor. We need to balance it.

Coalition carrier have same size with atlantis carrier, also x24 Secondary turrets and x4 Heavy Turret its the only carrier that have x4 Heavy Turret but you are right about maneuverability, its the slowest ship in the game needs little buff to turn speed

Continuing the theme of the balance of maneuverability and armor, and even the class of the ship I want to draw your attention to the example of the fact that the Order of the carrier has more maneuverability than most cruisers. Outcast gunboat has 8 guns 125000 armor and maneuverability is higher than the other ships with armor of 95,000 and above. There are many examples where there is no balance.

Order carrier is op yes, don't worry order carrier will be changed

Outcast Gunboat bigger than other gunboats/gunships that have 95k

As for weapons is a simple example, a comparison of cruising turret Damage/Energy coalition 2400/8000, order 2500/7500, liberty 2400/7000, outcast 2500/8000. It's not exactly balance.

cruising turret? what?

I already told that to Antonio but he ignored me most of the cruisers primary/battleship primary turrets arent balanced

[Hubjump]

Carrier coalition does not correspond to its characteristics, maneuverability and armor, with its size and maneuverability of his armor should be within 2500000-2700000. And now it is the hulking ship with very low armor. We need to balance it.

It is a carrier with 4 heavies,2 foward,3 each side and all 4 back
if my memory serves my the bret carrier is bigger,so is the atlantice and they both have 2 each
bret carrier only has 2 prims back,3 to the side but most the time its only 1 due to the weird arcs and such but as ant said no point changing now cos remodel soon
(please for the love of god make all its prims able to shoot backwards and not have the weird no turn zone that increases turret turn time by what feels like 10 seconds)

coalition carrier is (weapon wise) stronger than other carriers,to balance it...remove these guns,buff its armor and maybe turnrate ive never flown it my self
put it on par with the other carriers or simply convert it to a dreadnought...although i do like the idea of turning broadside to fire those extra heavies :3

[Tabris]

The Carrier is fine as it is, it's lower armour and turn-rate balance it's firepower nicely. *shrug*

[Blodwyn O'Driscoll]

i was just wondering, why it was chosen to remove the heavy turret under the belly ( which one was the original heavy turret placement, when scylla had only three of them ) , rather than the one on the command deck ?

By the way, is it me, or both Z-line dessie and GB were essentially re-balanced considering/toward Liberty ships ?

---

That is the crux of the matter.
If you aid us, and you aid them, you are the enemy.
If you do not aid them, you are worthless outside of extortion potential.
If you aid us, you will be treated with respect.

Colin H. Breen, of the Molly Republic

[Antonio]

i was just wondering, why it was chosen to remove the heavy turret under the belly ( which one was the original heavy turret placement, when scylla had only three of them ) , rather than the one on the command deck ?

By the way, is it me, or both Z-line dessie and GB were essentially re-balanced considering/toward Liberty ships ?

Scylla had 4 heavy turrets before the update. Now it has 3, and you're right that the bottom one was changed to a regular slot. Whether or not the heavy turret is at the top or bottom is irrelevant. Even if it was at the bottom you'd still have a regular slot turret above the command deck (I assume that's what's your issue) so it wouldn't change anything overall except create additional problems of messing with people's loadouts and removing their weapon mounted on the top heavy slot, and repositioning the arcs for such a minor change is pointless.

The Z-line caps were balanced with both regions in mind. They were given more attention towards Liberty instead of Bretonia, but for only one reason and that is other ships the Z-line fights in those areas. In Bretonia, Scylla benefited the most out of these changes due to the nerfs to Crecy and Typhoon, making it have an edge over the former and more appealing than the latter. Corsair Cruiser still remains stronger, but that was always the case and the Scylla is not supposed to be winning that duel anyways considering how much bigger and slower the Praefect is. It's compensated by better survivability in any other scenario except a cruiser only fight.

The Hellhound never had any closely matched opponents in Bretonia, as opposed to Liberty. In Liberty it has a straight matchup with the Defiant with both ships being very similar in size and shape, so balancing it around the Defiant was logical. It didn't impact the effectiveness in Bretonia considering you weren't winning a duel against an Imperator or a Bretonia gunboat before anyways, but you had and still have an edge in groupfights or when focused.

[Blodwyn O'Driscoll]

i was just wondering, why it was chosen to remove the heavy turret under the belly ( which one was the original heavy turret placement, when scylla had only three of them ) , rather than the one on the command deck ?

By the way, is it me, or both Z-line dessie and GB were essentially re-balanced considering/toward Liberty ships ?

Scylla had 4 heavy turrets before the update. Now it has 3, and you're right that the bottom one was changed to a regular slot. Whether or not the heavy turret is at the top or bottom is irrelevant. Even if it was at the bottom you'd still have a regular slot turret above the command deck (I assume that's what's your issue) so it wouldn't change anything overall except create additional problems of messing with people's loadouts and removing their weapon mounted on the top heavy slot, and repositioning the arcs for such a minor change is pointless.

The Hellhound never had any closely matched opponents in Bretonia, as opposed to Liberty. In Liberty it has a straight matchup with the Defiant with both ships being very similar in size and shape, so balancing it around the Defiant was logical. It didn't impact the effectiveness in Bretonia considering you weren't winning a duel against an Imperator or a Bretonia gunboat before anyways, but you had and still have an edge in groupfights or when focused.

In fact the Scylla had only 3 three heavy before the fourth one, on the top, was added, in some previous changes. Now with this update it will be reverted to 3, and i was wondering why the former set up with the heavy turret on the belly wasn't kept.
Just saying.( had players feeling it was weird having the heavy turret not reverted back to the original hard point ).
Edit : So, in the end, on which criteria was made the decision to keep the one on top rather than the belly one ?
( not like i know anything about balancing stuffs, anyway )

Anyway, about the hellhound, even if it wasn't on par with its bretonian or corsair conterpart, don't you feel like it widens the gap between thoses ?

[Gensec]

Сoalition gaunboat bad shoots on each side, 8 guns does not mean anything with low armor and maneuverability. He quickly falls in the battle with almost any gunboat. I repeat that violated Balance armor and maneuverability.

I repeat that the destroyer of the coalition has poor maneuverability, at least it is necessary to give itself greater maneuverability among cruisers and core 2250000. Not for nothing is the core of 2250000 has been given for the destroyer of the coalition, it was cut in maneuverability. Balan was, and now it is not present. To be fair it should be noted that the Breton destroyer with the same parameters has a core 2250000 and 10 guns, and the weapons of Brittany better than the coalition.

Coalition Carrier is not the only ship with 4 heavy cannons. Battleship Board has 6 heavy guns but in all respects a very superior Carrier coalition. Coalition Carrier shoots only 2 heavy guns forward. If it had 6 heavy guns I would have said nothing. I repeat that it is necessary to improve the armor and maneuverability for balance.

If you play for a coalition of the need to choose the following ships.
1. Heavy Fighter Eagle or saber. Fighter coalition is bad.
2. Bomber Varane or Kultras. Bomber coalition is bad.
3. Sand Pebbles Montana. Coalition gunboat is bad.
4. Battleship or destroyer of the coalition is better not to use because they are very bad. But there is no other vehicle that can replace playing with ID coalition.
5. I cited data cruising guns.
5.1. Cruising Coalition guns consume 8,000 energy and deal damage in 2400.
5.2. Cruising Order of guns consume 7,500 energy and deal damage in 2500.
5.2. Cruising guns freedom consume 7,000 energy and deal damage in 2400.
5.2. Cruising rogue gun consuming 8000 energy and deal damage in 2500.
Immediately evident that the coalition worst gun. This situation is about guns and battleships.

The question arises, what the coalition in general there ??? The answer is nothing after the patch. Even ID is a 6-cell in the hold.

I note that after the patch coalition ships were degraded very much. But it is clear that the ships of other fractions is very elevated. rogue ships are now simply the best around Sirius.

Ship designers not just appropriated parameters of ships, especially taken into account the fraction of its weapons and the most important was the balance of armor and maneuverability, now this balance is disturbed.

This patch has made a great imbalance.

[CommanderX]

It has been a long time since I stopped playing Freelancer Discovery due to computer issues, so I decided to check for any balance changes in the game. Sadly, I once again noticed that balance changes were very harsh for liberty, which wasn't really all that good to begin with.

Until now, liberty vs rheinland was one sided with rheinland killing navy ships 3 to 1. Navy bomber was trash when compared to rheinland one. LSC was trash while RNC cruiser was the most powerful cruiser in the game. Liberty BC wasn't good enough to rival RNC cruisers who were more agile and could swarm navy with stronger firepower while having enough mobility. Liberty carrier was a trash before and after update. Tons of light turrets were useless because of heavy energy drain and weren't accurate anyway.

Rheinalnd ships were mostly heavy, proving very efficient in head to head combat, so all noobs and newcommers gained massive advantage against new liberty players as navy capital ships required at least a decent ammount of skills.

The good ships liberty had were gunboat and battleship, and rhieland turtle was still more noob friendly and more efficient with cloack and jump drive.

Even when fight changed to liberty navy vs galic navy, galia had OP battleships and OP bombers that won against navy at every turn.

Now, what buffs liberty got to compensate for their weaknesses?
Liberty carrier is still as useless as it was.
Liberty BC have less armor and regens than other BC.
Liberty SC got siege gun nerf.
Liberty gunboat ( one of two only good ships in liberty navy ) got tons of nerfing.

I have been user of Liberty gunboat with navy ID and rogue gunboat with molly ID, and I can say that navy gunboat wasn't as OP as everyone think it was. I always felt more safe in rogue gunboat thanks to its better agility and ability to shot 6 turrets forward. And whenever I had fighters/bombers behind me, I just flew up/left and up/right to shot 5 turrets behind me (which surpricingly worked better than shoting 6 turrets back on navy gunboat)

In both gunboat fight and against subcrafts, my rogue gunboat was performing better. Even my duels between navy and rogue gunboat always ended up in favour of rogue gunboat.

I find nerf to navy gunboat to be very unfair, and the fact that navy siege cruiser (which was trash in all situations except using battle razor vs fighters/bombers) didn't get medium core and instead got FG nerf is just sad.
If you really had to nerf siege gun against gunboats, wouldn't it be fair to give siege cruiser better core or other buff to compensate? In cruiser vs cruiser battle, all light cruisers performed better than LSC even with siege gun help. Aiming at enemy cruiser with FG was never worth it because enemy cruiser always did more damage in the meanwhile.

Alright, I get it that liberty was always full of noobs and rookies who went for caps, a hated place that got the worst equipment for noobs considering main enemies liberty navy always faced, but when a large update that give buffs to so many ships, yet nerf liberty even futher, that's overdoing. Just because it is place where all new players starts doesn't mean that it deserve to be least noob-friendly with ships that die quickly for pilots without solid skills.