Battlecruiser Rework

[Thunderer]

Plugins don't work in singleplayer, and need skill to be applied to other servers.

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[Titan*]

Cruisers dominate the field? Interesting opinion, considering Bret cap whores, who fancy themselves as top cap pilots of game dont use cruisers at all.

And no, i didnt said this changes makes BC good vs both classes, ive said that would not be a good idea.

Pratically all i fly are cruisers, and i have never saw 2 cruisers beat even 2 bs, less even 4. the bs just keep cruising over one cruiser one after another, and if cruiser shield is down 2 HM insta an cruiser.

With bomber support? Sure, but then the bombers are the question, bomber spam kills any caps, dont matter what is it.
then you need counter it with snubs.

And yeah, i usually fly alone, best way ive could find to keep playing. As my ping usually is veeeery high, group fights are a no go for me, shamelly.

Still, it looks to me just a way to make field easier to BS, your argument of Cruiser being "king of the field" seems empty to a cruiser pilot. I fly em a lot, and have a hard time both to fight Frog BC with a thannie, or using an LABC vs Stortas or Scillas (tragedy for example pewed my LABC sometimes w bomber support for him to be able to win, sometime he won without help, sometimes i got lucky maybe and got the blue instead).
And ive tried both with Cruisers and Battlecruisers vs BS in conn and in game, a lot, a huge lot of times. And i say from experience, from what ive saw extensively on the field. If BS have even numbers on cruisers, and no side have snub/bomber support, and skill level is similar, balance tends to BS side.

well i started to fly cruisers like 4 year ago and they still dominate the battle nothing changed

2 Destroyer with 2-3GB 3-5 Snub support can destroy 4-5 Battleship/Battlecrusier/Cruiser and its escorts easly especially if the other side doesnt have good anti-cruiser ship
Battlecruisers are so slow they cant get close to Cruisers, if you catch them they go behind your BC and run. Battlecruisers have 0 chance against a skilled cruiser player doesnt matter how skilled you are on Battlecruiser

I can point out Kansas where 1 Storta and 3 Bomber killed 3 Battleship 2 BC 1 Cruiser and Also Cloaker A/)Battlecruiser and lots of bomber/fighters

Cruisers are like god mode ships if your teammates also know what to do and only way to kill them is Heavier Cruiser or lots of bombers

pls use spaces felipe

I dont get it
You think my idea will make battlecruisers better vs battleship and cruisers?
Nope this will make them worse vs battleships but good vs cruisers

cba to read this thread entirely.

What are you doing? BC's are /supposed/ to be anti-BS. Cruisers role aren't to take down battleships, it varies between destroying other cruisers, kiting, and taking down gunboats.

Battlecruisers are actually anti-cruiser ships if you look at the history

I like it. right now battlecruisers are only good against heavy battleships. mid and light bs can kill them easy with reverse and double HM. they are weak against cruisers too cause they big and slow. i like this new change of combat, welcome change indeed

And exactly how making BC even easier target for BS"s will change/better the situation?

Did you watch edinburgh or did you even read the op? srsly people should read the op before posting here i don't like to repeat myself everytime

There was Edinburgh event where 6-7 BC fighting 6-7 Battleship, that event took more than half an hour and both side had no losses
Battlecruisers extremely hard to hit at long ranges and Medium-Light Battleships also extremelly hard to hit at long ranges

Togo effectively has only 1 heavy slot because of its bad arcs. What I suggested to Titan was to move bomber hellfires to class 3, remove the plugin and restrict the ammo to 240. That opens up an entire class (class 4 guns) to work with which could be new, unique battlecruiser guns. Then we can talk what stats those guns'd have.

and how its gonna change battlecruiser gameplay?

Togo effectively has only 1 heavy slot because of its bad arcs. What I suggested to Titan was to move bomber hellfires to class 3, remove the plugin and restrict the ammo to 240. That opens up an entire class (class 4 guns) to work with which could be new, unique battlecruiser guns. Then we can talk what stats those guns'd have.

We don't even need this with Alley's shipclass plugin, but Titan wants them to use cruiser and BS guns for... reasons? I guess I'll let him explain, because I can't wrap my head around a good reason for it.

like i said, you will feel like you using Cruiser and Battleship at the same time. Actually It would be fine if we give them new Battlecruiser class weapons but we should also increase their size to make them easier target vs Battleships. Otherwise BC vs BS fights will take more than 30min

[Thunderer]

Cruisers dominate the field? Interesting opinion, considering Bret cap whores, who fancy themselves as top cap pilots of game dont use cruisers at all.

I trained most of the BAF capwhores, and I don't fly cruisers. That is why fewer of them fly cruisers. I don't because there's too many buttons to press and they are too fast for me. I've always been better at strategy games than action games, so I chose battleships. Simply a personal preference.

If I preferred winning in the end over having fun while fighting, I'd have chosen gunboats and bombers.

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[Antonio]

If you'll go by that logic Titan, then pulse/cerb gunboats will kill any amount of cruisers or caps in general, but balance isn't as simple as that. Or a bunch of bombers will kill any amount of caps, "in theory". There are instakills, cloaks, eking, carefully placed mortars, baiting range and other methods to counter and although you -might- kill a few bad battleships in your cruiser 1v3, the opposite can happen as well. Don't oversimplify Discovery pvp.

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[Hubjump]

Ever considered removing the CD from BC's?
or giving BS's a close range CD that just maybe can drain the % of a thruster?
it would make BC's mistakes actually cost something other then a few nanobots
the issue always was, in my eyes, that BC's just shrugged off mistakes where as a mistake for a BS pilot was fatal because a BC could repair and just walk away with that thruster

Also felipe, us bret cap whores fight fleets of gallic BC's and its annoying af
of course we learn to deal with them best we can but we still lose in groups, and in a 1v1 a good BC pilot can just peck away at max range like the BC main cpt.mitchell...

we dont use our cruisers for bretonia because crecy is a glorified gunboat lol

Any way i look forward to seeing these changes, in a way it makes them more like what historical battlecruisers were anyway so im happy with this experiment

[Giorgio]

best battlecruiser in the game

Come on now. Both the Core and the Council BCs are better than the GRN one. No idea why would you call it the best BC in the game.

[Antonio]

best battlecruiser in the game

Come on now. Both the Core and the Council BCs are better than the GRN one. No idea why would you call it the best BC in the game.

Agreed. The former has the best possible shape for fighting battleships and the latter is a GRN BC but 15% downscaled because when Haste upscaled the GRN one he forgot the Council BC.

[Hubjump]

GRN BC is most balanced imo atm im okay with fighting one on its own, sometimes even 2 with my kirk (pls dont nerf my kirk its glorious xD)

[Titan*]

best battlecruiser in the game

Come on now. Both the Core and the Council BCs are better than the GRN one. No idea why would you call it the best BC in the game.

one of the best then? Council BC will have same size as GRN BC soon why should call it best bc?

If you'll go by that logic Titan, then pulse/cerb gunboats will kill any amount of cruisers or caps in general, but balance isn't as simple as that. Or a bunch of bombers will kill any amount of caps, "in theory". There are instakills, cloaks, eking, carefully placed mortars, baiting range and other methods to counter and although you -might- kill a few bad battleships in your cruiser 1v3, the opposite can happen as well. Don't oversimplify Discovery pvp.

it turned to cruiser balance thread it seems
like i said, tell me what to do with Battlecruisers.
What i wrote to OP is just an idea.

I see battlecruisers useless,annoying and boring in this game.For me Best thing to do is changing their gameplay to something between Cruisers and Battleships.

[Omicron]

You've asked what to do with battlecruisers, here's my own take on it.
Depending on their overal size/profile as tiny Liberty Cattlebruiser is not an equal to IMG BriCk
+10% to +40% size increase, depending on how big or riddiculously tiny they already are

complete zero of heavy battleship turrets. Battleships should remain Kings of the Artillery
2-3 battleship primary turrets
1-4 battleship secondary turrets
2-4 cruiser heavy turrets
6-8 cruiser turrets
cruiser shield
simmilar speed and handling as they are now
perhaps adjust their powercore slightly upward
slight increase in hull to compensate for increased volume

That way, they carry suitable battleship arsenal for their size, without making them light battleships with thrusters. Cruiser shield make them more fair to battleship fire if they go too close thanks to their increased size without leaving them completely useless in engagements against battleships. Plethora of cruiser guns (and in some cases extra battleship gun to match) will increase their combat chances against cruisers who will fire at smaller range.

The increased hitbox, balanced hullpoints and cruiser shields will make them more competitive vessels and plenty of turrets render them excellent in fleet battles. You're not boxing them into "one, only" very specific loadout dictated by odd number and restrictions that you had intended for every single battlecruiser in existence: instead, they may fit BS (or CR) pulses for powerful anti-shield strike to finish them with CR (or BS) primaries. They could also sacrifice flak coverage for more solaris or secondaries: the new cruiser missiles in my personnal opinion are a mistake at their current status and should be adjusted to fit BC's, not the other way around.

Though in all, I am not actually against of battlecruisers having their own class of a shield to make them more customizable to both player and balance devs.

It's wrong approach to make certain shipclasses an inflexible hardcounter against very specific set of targets. Any ship should be able to effectively engage any other class (within reason, of course. No fighters Trent'ing dreadnoughts) only depending on loadout that the user selected.