Quite a few people miss the point that I'm not arguing for faction backstories but merely assets in game and their gameplay potential. I think this needs to be reiterated. Also if you have nothing to add aside from a really poor ad hominem then please don't bother posting.
Shelco Wrote:Why would the Order be an underdog compared to Outcasts and Corsairs, though? You make it look like the Order wasn't powerful in Vanilla already. The Order even was the only Omicron faction which even possessed capital ships and the technology that it had. Far more technologically advanced than Outcasts and Corsairs, they should at least be meant to be as strong as those two but not an underdog.
We are talking about a secret organisation of 250k people on Akabat vs. 470 millions on Malta and 620 millions on Crete. The matter of capitals in vanilla is not settled but I somehow can't imagine that Outcasts designed the Ranseur and Sarissa between 800 A.S and now. So yes, they certainly should be significantly less powerful compared to Outcasts and Corsairs.
Toris Wrote:We cannot really apply logic to Disco.
This originated as a meme when it came to Discovery lore but tbh seeing the system and pvp developments recently I think someone's taken it a bit too far.
Toris Wrote:I think Corsairs should be already considered as lawful or quasi-lawful by Kusari.
I think you'll find that this thread has "Omicrons" in its title for a reason.
Quote:All factions want to be powerful and stuff. That's the problem with current climate. Every faction can do most of the things well instead of actually specializing as per lore. Most of them lost their vanilla charm and then we have Core, the wannabe faction in Omicrons that spunned out of nowhere and appears to be dominant force with very little reasonable lore to warrant it. Dunno.
(11-26-2017, 09:13 PM)SnakThree Wrote: All factions want to be powerful and stuff. That's the problem with current climate. Every faction can do most of the things well instead of actually specializing as per lore. Most of them lost their vanilla charm and then we have Core, the wannabe faction in Omicrons that spunned out of nowhere and appears to be dominant force with very little reasonable lore to warrant it. Dunno.
Yes, indeed years and tons of RP later and Core still "spunned out of nowhere". The fact you don't know about it doesn't mean it's not there. You have APM as the backbone, you have Core selling stuff on the blackmarket to fund itself, plus, the BHG rolled in the funds pre-split. I won't get into detail, but it's all there.
As for Corile's points, yeah, sorry, I'm not feeling it.
I think your essay does have merit, and there are certainly issues within the region. Although I do have my criticisms and comments.
Small disclaimer: yes, as Core lead there is a degree of bias in the position I will be responding from, however, I will try my best to neutralise that with carefully explained points and justification where possible. And I'm also not trying to take any potshots at Order| or anyone in it. So don't assume that, please.
I think Core is mostly fine the way it is. In fact, I think Core itself meets, or tries to (I'll get into that a bit later) a purpose the Edge Worlds needs. It needs enforcers of the law. Law creates ambient activity as it encourages players to log on and actually patrol. During our officialdom request before we had the laws line and the laws themselves, there was utterly no reason to log on other than PvP. The big issue with the Edge Worlds is that it's way too PvP-focused. There were very little incentives for players to log on and do things other than shoot something red. It's a bit better now, at least for Core with its laws, but there's still a way to go. If I am perfectly honest, Core does not fit being an underdog (not saying it ever was), and every region should have at least one lawful ID with a domineering presence of sorts for optimum activity and roleplay generation. Seeing as The Core is the Edge World's only Lawful presence, my point is reinforced.
I will say however that it's been mildly irritating getting Core to where it's supposed to be. In the past, attempts to get the faction and it's ID to a point where it can properly create ambient activity have been marred by bias Staff in the past (none of the current ones, not hating on you pls don't ban me again) that refused to understand the faction concept, as well as gangs of players grouping up to stifle the faction where possible in forum discussions. I'm hoping that now I can finally try to remedy this issue as the faction is more accepted and the player base is more mature and people don't meme on it anymore. Hopefully proper ambient activity can be created. Another big problem is that currently in game infocards relating to Core are extremely basic and barely explain the faction concept at all (pretty sure there's one or two BHG Core era infocards in there still). I've been trying for years to actually get stuff in the game that explains the faction properly, however the Dev team hasn't been cooperative (except Kai, come back bby). I'm not sure if it's been remedied for them, Ace also greatly struggled to get AI infocards into the mod that could flesh out the AI faction more.
I think one critical problem of the Edge Worlds, and players will both agree and hate me for saying this, is the development of Order post-Toledo. Things like the recent Zoner drama, the somewhat mad addition of multiple Order bases in the past few versions, as well as it's stealthy and unexplained power creep has greatly veered it off from the course and purpose it's supposed to be on.
Order and Core are supposed to be ideological opposites. Ying and Yang. Core seeks dominion over the Edge Worlds region, and containment and research of the Nomads, so that it can effectively make lots of money and become very powerful. The Order should be about stopping the Nomad threat - becoming driven to almost dangerous extremes after Toledo - and the utter clamp down of Nomad technology. Core are Lawful Evil and (in my opnion) Order should be Chaotic Good. At the least Chaotic Neutral. On our part, we've stuck to that.
Instead, if I am perfectly honest, the current Disco Order is warmongers who seek to be a (psuedo-)Empire. It has a laissez-faire attitude when it comes to the Nomad threat, and generally takes the backseat when situations arise. Core propaganda is supposed to be an exaggerated fiction of The Order, yet time and time again Order are doing everything Core says they are. Something that feels extremely awkward is every year Order is becoming more and more like Core, which is probably why you've reached the conclusion the two factions are similar. They seem much more concerned with expansion, even though there's no proof they have anywhere near the resources to step one foot out of Mu. They are actually selling Nomad goods to 3rd parties via Kemwer munitions. The Sirius wide ZoI is criminally under-utilized, as there is a distinct lack of Order operations across Sirius as they did in vanilla. Order flip between Lawful Evil one day, and Chaotic Evil the next.
Also fyi the only system Order controls is Omicron Mu. But the current presentation of Order in game does give an illusion of much more influence that it should reasonably have.
Anyway, regardless of the disclaimer, it's unfortunate that my comments will probably just be drowned out by cries of bias. Oh well.
I absolutely agree with your points on system design. The 'Omicron Update' made the Edge Worlds as a whole WORSE. It became noticeably harder to generate activity after the changes. The aesthetics were certainly nice, the deeper Nomad Worlds were useful, but otherwise the update hurt the region more than it helped.
You forgot to talk about the Artificial Intelligence of Gammu. I don't know if you intentionally left them out or not, but honestly, I can see why you could have left them out by mistake. The Omicron Update basically squeezed AIG into a tiny pocket in Kappa - which was once their home system - and made them utterly forgettable. One could be fooled into thinking this was the beginning of an erasure from the mod. They absolutely contributed a unique alienness to the region, but now, however, they're just "lul toasters xd"., and the community still treats them as a meme. Which is a shame, as Phil has done an excellent job in bringing the faction up from dust, and trying to present it in a plausible way.
I've greatly disliked the general shoving-out-of-Corsairs from the southern Omicrons, which removes one of the most important components of ambient activity: pirates! Corsairs should really be in the region more for reasons other than nutella and armadas. They should be frequently in the Iridium and Azurite fields, pirating traders of credits and cargo. I actually suggested they get an Iridium bonus, since they've touched it previously. Their lack of access to the Omicrons makes the Omicrons far too lawful (even IDs like Order and AI protect traders) aside from PvP between different alignments. Generally speaking, it's a fairly safe haven for traders.
Ah but yet again, with no real decent trade routes and with badly placed mining fields, there is a lack of consistent flow of goods in and out of the region, bar buffed events. This is what's leading to your listed commodities being underused.
And as one final personal complaint: Core still not having a direct connection to the Omegas via Rho massively hampers it's ability to generate activity there and makes Dagger redundant. It's been a big mystery to me why the Dev team has been so adamant to push Core into the Sigmas, rather than fix it's Omega issues first.
I don't really understand why your point about faction commodities being a bad thing, other than the point I explained earlier. They are a way for a faction to explain how they make money. In regards to unsustainable trade commodities, it's the lack of decent trade routes for them that makes them unappealing. Case and point: buffed routes for specific IDs. A buff on Terraforming Gasses for PF IDs is going to make people rush to that faction to make money, but once it's over they'll probably leave their ships to collect dust, never to use them again.
In terms of combat, as evidenced in the Port Carthage and earlier FP11 fights, battles can tend to boil down to everyone mothballing and ganking Core that one faction. But on that note, I don't think the choice of factions has altered the ability to create big fights at all. It's ultimately the preferences of the players what they want to fly, and if people want to have massive black and white battles they will just boil an engagement down to two IDs. If anything, the only complaint I can think of for lack of big fights is between Corsairs and Outcasts, which honestly is a separate Hispania issue because I've seen Corsairs log in big numbers against Core and Nomads.
Now Hessians... it's a can of worms. I don't think it's Wesker's fault that they are what they are, but rather this lies with older leadership going too far with the faction and eventually gaining more assets and power (because they were Devs themselves) than they should have. Although Wesker could have toned back on the legal stuff RHA was doing, as that doesn't really fit the profile of murderous raiders (chaotic evil) imo. I don't think they're an issue that hampers the Edge Worlds though, and I don't really have an opinion about their Omega and Omicron ZoI other than it just helps to create activity. I do think it's wrong though that Hessians control the caps when they should really be in the hands of the Unioners. At the least, it's incredibly irking that the Unioners have to go for the Hessians for caps, not the other way around.
Zoner caps should be repurposed as colony ships.
All other caps are fine.
Nauru RP (when Core first set foot on it) is about 10 IRL years old at this point, older than Toledo/Akabat, before I even started playing here, and doesn't really need to be revisited other than just getting the Docking Ring on for status points. This was conducted with many factions and players involved. I don't really know how about Tangier RP, but I know Hessians have been looking at it for at least 4 years.
It's silly to critique or compare Core to anything from vanilla as it's a Disco addition, or to say it's spawned out of nowhere as you can simply read the lore and events that describe how it's gotten to where it is now. Which is a damn lot more than what other factions have done. Core itself is also not like anything else that exists in both the Edge Worlds and the greater mod, bar perhaps GRN. Great lengths were taken to make it unique and distinct. I wouldn't call it homogenous at all.
All of the notable events in the Edge Worlds in the past 4 years (some of which have been some of the most notable moments in the server's history) have been a direct result of Core's lore and gameplay progression and contribution to the mod. This might not be your point, but to say that has been negative for the region is illogical. The Core, most certainly in its current state, has cemented itself as an essential part of the Edge Worlds.
Ultimately, at the end of the day, it's up to the faction's and their leaders to make their groups interesting and working with the Dev team to achieve that if needed. Barely anyone wanted to play (BHG) Core before I picked the faction up. Which is why I find your retcon suggestion for Core silly, as I separated Core and BHG in order make them very different and unique (new ship models when pls) and to actually draw players. By your suggestion, to retcon them back into near-identical status would just make Core boring and underplayed again. The factions would basically be the same except BHG has the better ZoI.
Outside of using my sway as JM creator, I found it very hard to draw in interest. We'd be outnumbered and outgunned constantly. But in the end, I succeeded. I saw the fundamental flaws in the faction concept and worked with others to change those in order to make it more appealing.
Yes, we've got a lower pop and there are fewer players to go around now, however, I don't think it's fair to pin that on faction players when it's not really their fault. If you just start trying needlessly to take things away from factions, that is how you're going to kill interest. I remember when a big conspiracy being pushed by certain-people-who-have-now-left to nerf Core caps to 10% on The Core ID, as well as give away Yaren to The Order floated to the surface. Suffice to say the players who would be affected were not happy at all with this idea, and if implemented it would have massively hurt the faction and the region overall. Or better yet a more recent and actual example was taking away GMG's ability to enforce laws within the Sigmas. This massively hurt their activity and choked their faction development, and has had a bad impact on the region overall.
In essence almost all of the points you raise are valid somewhat, however, they're targetted at the completely wrong groups, and haven't been as well researched as they should have been. The subtractive suggestions are also terrible, but I feel like you added them for perspective rather than supporting them yourself. I certainly agree with you in regards to systems.
In conclusion:
The Omicrons aren't a mess because of factions you've critiqued. They're a mess because it's too PvP focused, and encounters/activity are like the "junk food" of Discovery. Omicron Delta has been the centre of the region for too long. The region thrives off drama too much, as shown in the activity dips between the FP11 stuff and whilst I was banned. In the past 4 years since the last Omicron story event, the only major thing that happens in the region is the constant circlejerking and drama around FP11 in Delta. You get dumb things like LNS and other House caps coming to Delta because the region presents itself as a ship free for all. This needs to change.
My proposed solutions to enhancing the Edge Worlds: Give the redesigning of the Omicrons and Omegas to the faction leaders or at least people who know how the region works. We need to ditch the mentality of economy>activity so that players can interact more efficiently and generate roleplay. The connections, placement of solars and mining fields is just in shambles right now. We need to inject the region with a much-needed dose of roleplay and lore, so that it stops being an extension of conn.
Quote:I think Core is mostly fine the way it is. In fact, I think Core itself meets, or tries to (I'll get into that a bit later) a purpose the Edge Worlds needs. It needs enforcers of the law. Law creates ambient activity as it encourages players to log on and actually patrol. During our officialdom request before we had the laws line and the laws themselves, there was utterly no reason to log on other than PvP. The big issue with the Edge Worlds is that it's way too PvP-focused. There were very little incentives for players to log on and do things other than shoot something red. It's a bit better now, at least for Core with its laws, but there's still a way to go. If I am perfectly honest, Core does not fit being an underdog (not saying it ever was), and every region should have at least one lawful ID with a domineering presence of sorts for optimum activity and roleplay generation. Seeing as The Core is the Edge World's only Lawful presence, my point is reinforced.
I will respectfully disagree with the bold sentence. When it comes down to purely activity, somehow Corsairs and Outcasts managed to survive and thrive as the most active Omicron factions and I would argue that Core doesn't help in that regard. Lawful activity in the Omicrons is not needed because largely the reason people choose to go away from lawful factions in the Houses. The point about Omicrons being too 'PVP-focused' is moot, because to be honest, at the end of every RP encounter the point is either PVP or avoiding it.
Pretty much everything after that lies on your perception that Omicrons somehow 'need' a lawful faction, which is not the case, but let's go further for the sake of it.
If we're talking about most people logging Omicrons purely for combat, that would have been solved by adding one contested mining field in a system like Omicron Theta that Outcasts and Corsairs could fight over. This could perhaps also have solved the issue of "underbalanced corporations" such as Cryer and Planetform by giving them mining bonuses to that field.
Quote:I'm hoping that now I can finally try to remedy this issue as the faction is more accepted and the player base is more mature and people don't meme on it anymore.
Aside from the Core's lore being a perfect example of "stop trying to apply logic to disco", (RP is not the focus of this thread though, so I will skim over the parts referencing it) the problem with Core is that by its very nature it gets involved in threeways. When you look at the spread of factions in the "human Omicrons" you'll see, going from the northwest counterclockwise: IMG, Outcasts, Corsairs, Hessians. There are combat fronts between each pair of these factions and none can particularly interfere in each other's encounters. Order is somewhere in between however for a long time they haven't gotten themselves involved in the Corsair-Outcast conflict.
Quote:<stuff abour order>
As I mentioned in the paragraph above, Order doesn't, and shouldn't, get involved in the Outcast-Corsair war. Order should be the faction that deals with Nomads, and not humans. It would be nice if we could also stop the rhetoric about Outcasts being big friendos with Nomads.
Quote:You forgot to talk about the Artificial Intelligence of Gammu. I don't know if you intentionally left them out
I did, mostly because I don't have that much knowledge about AI. I was a part of AI Consensus back in the day (I actually played more-or-less each faction in the Omicrons and led two player factions), but I don't particularly understand how they're supposed to work so I skimmed over them. Generally though, I think that AI on the whole are a refreshing aspect of the Omicrons which is not a part of the problem described in the OP.
Quote:And as one final personal complaint: Core still not having a direct connection to the Omegas via Rho massively hampers it's ability to generate activity there and makes Dagger redundant. It's been a big mystery to me why the Dev team has been so adamant to push Core into the Sigmas, rather than fix it's Omega issues first.
I can help you solve that mystery: because Core should have it's ZoI reduced, and not expanded. Lawful activity in the Omicrons should be limited because the entire point of the Omicrons is to be a wild west. Apologies for bluntness, but if you want to be lawful, go play in the Houses. In the Houses you have powerful lawfuls and underdog criminals. In the Omicrons it is the other way around and I would very much appreciate if people would stop trying to make Omicrons another house.
Quote:I don't really understand why your point about faction commodities being a bad thing, other than the point I explained earlier.
I didn't say that faction commodities are bad, I mentioned that some of them have minimal lore value. What I mean is perhaps best ilustrated by other examples. Commodities such as Stabiline or Cardamine have giant lore value (knowing firsthand from leading Wisp), because you can easily secure trade contracts for them with many factions. This leads to more RP and ultimately more incentive to fly those -- to supply RP efforts of other factions which in turn boosts your diplomacy and activity. In other words, people need them.
On the other hand you have stuff like Xeno Relics. Nobody /needs/ Xeno Relics, they aren't used to build ships or remedy problems of people, they are a luxury commodity. However unlike Artifacts, they cannot exactly be substitutes for stuff like pieces of art or archaeological artifacts (which is what I've been doing with Custodi), as they are mined in space. Thus, there is little explanation why anyone would /need/ them and why would they ever reach a high price in large quantities.
Quote:But on that note, I don't think the choice of factions has altered the ability to create big fights at all.
Quote:If anything, the only complaint I can think of for lack of big fights is between Corsairs and Outcasts
:thinking:
It all comes down to the overlap of factions people are playing. When you have just two big ones to pick from, it's more likely people will just log one or the other. When you have five or six, there is more fragmentation and it's hard to get people to log for a particular fight.
After that point, pretty much all of your points are based on the assumption that "oh we've already done so much work we can't remove all of it now surely", so I wll not discuss them. I will just say this: I'm not saying any particular action will be taken because we're already beyond the point of no return. Deleting factions would lead to people being disgruntled and mad, and rightfully so. The story devs (and admins as well, but to a much lesser extent) allowed for a faction like Core, which goes against most of what Omicrons should be, to pop up and become official and we have to live with it.
I would assert that part of the reason that there are vaguely similar-behaving factions in the area is that there is indeed a vacuum where the activity of the Outcast-Corsair rivalry used to be. Take the Corsairs as an example. I think you're right in that the Malta-Crete fight needs to be revitalised by making it more accessible, the loss of Eta as a convenient place to engage (in all senses of the term) with the Outcasts has had the effect of the Corsairs essentially pulling out of the Omicrons to look for greener pastures. Said pasture is southern Bretonia, where, at least from my perspective, activity has been relatively high of late.
So while Crete is away, someone's trying to fill the gap. Now I'm not saying that someone like the Core or the Order are the same as the Corsairs as far as authority is concerned, but they are similar enough that they are all 'lawful' enough to have an entry on the House Roleplay Laws section here on the forums. The way the Core and Order are, I wager, is partly to do with filling the rather large and specifically shaped hole left by the lack of engagement between the traditional factions.
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(11-26-2017, 09:04 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: I think you're missing Omicron Theta being the activity hub on Hamburg City.
I haven't played HHC and completely agree with what he said about Theta. Removing all connections but the Sigma-17 and Gamma one was one of the worst system design decisions I've seen here. Only after the community outrage we were served breadcrumbs in the shape of Kappa hole which turned out to be nothing but a placebo buff to the system. The Kappa hole has next to no purpose and there's a reason barely anyone uses it - it's faster to simply go through Gamma.
Even if it was a proper connection, it depended on the other connections to be relevant, such as Theta-Omega 41 or the old Theta-Eta which were both highly used back in the day. Omicron Theta was one of the biggest activity hubs throughout Discovery history and I've still no idea why there was a need to bottleneck everything through faction home systems (Gamma) rather than neutral, semi-desolated activity hubs. Removal of O-41 hole was the final nail in the coffin for once one of the most important systems in Freelancer and I've yet to see someone provide a sensible reason for its deletion.
(11-27-2017, 10:11 AM)Corile Wrote: I will respectfully disagree with the bold sentence. When it comes down to purely activity, somehow Corsairs and Outcasts managed to survive and thrive as the most active Omicron factions and I would argue that Core doesn't help in that regard. Lawful activity in the Omicrons is not needed because largely the reason people choose to go away from lawful factions in the Houses. The point about Omicrons being too 'PVP-focused' is moot, because to be honest, at the end of every RP encounter the point is either PVP or avoiding it.
How does Core not help? Corsair players can easily confirm that a lot of their logging is for interacting with Core players. Core hasn't interact with Outcasts in a while granted, and that's mainly because of Shiki's plans, but in the past frequent Alpha raids would also boost Outcast activity.
I also greatly disagree that the Omicrons do not need lawfuls and that people leave the Houses to stop playing lawfuls. There is massive interest by players to play a lawful ID in the Edge Worlds, as evidenced by Core's consistently high activity. One of the reasons why the region isn't dead anymore is because of the frequent involvement of Core in creating encounters.
I also think it's bad to so easily forgo my point about a PvP centric Omicrons. Other regions at least can provide some form of activity generating roleplay before the encounter devolves into shoot shoot. The Omicrons don't do that, and it's a problem because it prevents the region having encounters with depth.
(11-27-2017, 10:11 AM)Corile Wrote: If we're talking about most people logging Omicrons purely for combat, that would have been solved by adding one contested mining field in a system like Omicron Theta that Outcasts and Corsairs could fight over. This could perhaps also have solved the issue of "underbalanced corporations" such as Cryer and Planetform by giving them mining bonuses to that field.
Yeah, a problem is the really poor placement of mining fields. The Iridium field is too far away from (other) pirates to interact with. Same for Xeno Relics and and Cryo Organisms.
(11-27-2017, 10:11 AM)Corile Wrote: Aside from the Core's lore being a perfect example of "stop trying to apply logic to disco", (RP is not the focus of this thread though, so I will skim over the parts referencing it)
Although as you said this isn't the main angle of the thread, I need to reiterate that Core goes way further than many factions in Disco when it comes to justifying and evidencing how and what it can do. This is because of the needless scrutiny it gets as a 'Disco faction', whilst vanilla factions get free passes. It's not perfect but it's much more logical than others.
(11-27-2017, 10:11 AM)Corile Wrote: the problem with Core is that by its very nature it gets involved in threeways. When you look at the spread of factions in the "human Omicrons" you'll see, going from the northwest counterclockwise: IMG, Outcasts, Corsairs, Hessians. There are combat fronts between each pair of these factions and none can particularly interfere in each other's encounters. Order is somewhere in between however for a long time they haven't gotten themselves involved in the Corsair-Outcast conflict.
I've got my complaints about how these three ways can lead to ganking, but to be fair Core priming itself to get shot by multiple people at once is what makes it such a good tool for activity generation. It can easily draw the interest of multiple IDs to log to shoot it. So therefore, other than the irritating but sometimes manageable ganking, I don't see how this is a huge issue. At the least, it boils down to player etiquette.
(11-27-2017, 10:11 AM)Corile Wrote: I can help you solve that mystery: because Core should have it's ZoI reduced, and not expanded. Lawful activity in the Omicrons should be limited because the entire point of the Omicrons is to be a wild west. Apologies for bluntness, but if you want to be lawful, go play in the Houses. In the Houses you have powerful lawfuls and underdog criminals. In the Omicrons it is the other way around and I would very much appreciate if people would stop trying to make Omicrons another house.
Well, you've completly misunderstood the dynamic of The Core and jumped to the conclusion that the Omicrons are becoming a house - which would never happen and only exists as an objective. Core creates a situation by trying to impose law and order on denizens who'd much rather live without it. This immediately puts them at odds with most of the population. Once again, I disagree on your point for where lawfuls should and shouldn't be.
(11-27-2017, 10:11 AM)Corile Wrote: On the other hand you have stuff like Xeno Relics. Nobody /needs/ Xeno Relics, they aren't used to build ships or remedy problems of people, they are a luxury commodity. However unlike Artifacts, they cannot exactly be substitutes for stuff like pieces of art or archaeological artifacts (which is what I've been doing with Custodi), as they are mined in space. Thus, there is little explanation why anyone would /need/ them and why would they ever reach a high price in large quantities
I do find the introduction of Xeno Relics a bit odd in the case then. They don't really serve a purpose or something that makes them distinct from norm Artifacts.
(11-27-2017, 10:11 AM)Corile Wrote: It all comes down to the overlap of factions people are playing. When you have just two big ones to pick from, it's more likely people will just log one or the other. When you have five or six, there is more fragmentation and it's hard to get people to log for a particular fight.
And what I'm saying is that it's non-sensical to blame the lack of Outcasts and Corsair fights on Core and Hessians. It's up to the players to generate those. Make an event for a Corsair and Outcast pew and I'm sure people would turn up.
(11-27-2017, 10:11 AM)Corile Wrote: After that point, pretty much all of your points are based on the assumption that "oh we've already done so much work we can't remove all of it now surely", so I wll not discuss them. I will just say this: I'm not saying any particular action will be taken because we're already beyond the point of no return. Deleting factions would lead to people being disgruntled and mad, and rightfully so. The story devs (and admins as well, but to a much lesser extent) allowed for a faction like Core, which goes against most of what Omicrons should be, to pop up and become official and we have to live with it.
If we kept with the old Omicrons before Core| I can assure you the region would have most likely never gained the reputation it has for being the hotspot it is today. Core doesn't go against what the Omicrons are, it's a natural line of progression from what the interests of third parties towards that region would be. It then creates interesting dynamics and schisms among the Omicron populace. It doesn't subtract from the region. It enchances it.
Ultimately Prot, this thread seems to bring up valid problems of Hispania, but then unfairly paint the blame on other factions. The Omicrons have been thriving and prosperous. The reason why Hispania hasn't felt the same isn't something I can give the answer to yet, but I'm sure it's an internal Hispania-only problem.
Quote:I can help you solve that mystery: because Core should have it's ZoI reduced, and not expanded. Lawful activity in the Omicrons should be limited because the entire point of the Omicrons is to be a wild west. Apologies for bluntness, but if you want to be lawful, go play in the Houses. In the Houses you have powerful lawfuls and underdog criminals. In the Omicrons it is the other way around and I would very much appreciate if people would stop trying to make Omicrons another house.
You probably are aware you're one of very, very few people who are of that opinion. Most Omicron factions are trying to keep up some sort of economy to justify all the assets they have. Outcasts do that with Atlantis, Core with APM, Corsairs did it with the CTC and even Order roams around with Liners and Transports. The thing is people look for alternative ways of playing certain IDs, because if you look at what it left without that, it's purely PvP-oriented. That is boring and kills activity more than you proposed can fix it. You're literally trying to limit people to play the game in a way you except it from vanilla perspectives, while Discovery is all about expansion and innovation. Of course people are trying to set up new houses - because nothing can exist compete in existence with anything else without corporations, research and a set of laws. And people want this kind of gameplay where they can create something both for themselves and for the NPC faction.
There is no problem with the Omicrons. The activity has shifted, that is not a problem but a sign of progression. In your eyes, that is bad progression. As someone who plays Corsairs, Core, Zoners and Nomads, it is good progression. Omicron Delta is the center of activity for a very good reason: System layout.
1. It has no sun in the center, so you don't have a giant obstacle with inconvenient killzone measures.
2. It has a neutral station in the center, which invites people of all areas to come over and have a talk, thanks to the NFZ, which is respected by most non-lolwuts.
3. It has Dabadoru, Yaren and Lichtenfelde, three stations of opposing factions.
4. Corsairs and AI are in fair range to Delta - a static Corsair battleship in Delta would be a great addition, though, instead of Cituadella in Kappa.
5. Delta is literally the Delta to the Nomad-controlled Omicrons and a crossroad to Rheinland, Upper Omicrons and lower Omicrons.
6. Delta has certain things to explore, like Omicron Lost and the Azurite Reactor.
7. The asteroid ring around the Medium Red with Freeport 11 infront of it is one of the most beautiful constellations of the mod.
There is literally no need to alter this. Stop QQing, log your stuff not only when looking at the player list, be ingame and have fun. And let other people progress instead of trying to limit anything.
Rickard actually makes me think of something. Why do Unlawful factions have laws to enforce? Isn't that a complete oxymoron? I can understand a degree of space regulations but.. Eh....
![[Image: Lythrilux.gif]](https://sig.grumpybumpers.com/host/Lythrilux.gif)
