4.90.1 Initial - Retribution

[Thyrzul]

After 22 hours since the thread was posted, after nine pages of (not solely) tears about LWB's (temporary) removal, after at least one ragequit of a vet, and after I asked no less than three times if there is anyone willing to actually play LWB I have not seen anyone coming forward saying "me", just people raging "muh sacred vanilla faction" and "removing factions is bad/stupid/cancerous/whatever" left and right. The only more or less reasonable point I found appearing here against removing the faction was that we have already enough unused guard IFFs to recycle before having to touch factions currently in use, and even that still touches only half of the reasoning behind the decision on LWB's fate.

Keep up with the tears, kids.

@Devs
Penance looks nice for now, even despite the glitches, though I hoped this time Council gets the big gun as well. Tests will continue after the hotfix.
Aspis looks nice, though the extra turret slots lacking their base makes them look a bit weird.
I haven't got time to check all the other new features yet.

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[Lythrilux]

After 22 hours since the thread was posted, after nine pages of (not solely) tears about LWB's (temporary) removal, after at least one ragequit of a vet, and after I asked no less than three times if there is anyone willing to actually play LWB I have not seen anyone coming forward saying "me", just people raging "muh sacred vanilla faction" and "removing factions is bad/stupid/cancerous/whatever" left and right. The only more or less reasonable point I found appearing here against removing the faction was that we have already enough unused guard IFFs to recycle before having to touch factions currently in use, and even that still touches only half of the reasoning behind the decision on LWB's fate.

Keep up with the tears, kids.

I'm indifferent to LWB, haven't played it myself, nor find it interesting enough for me to play it (at least currently). If that's enough reason to remove a faction, then there's a huge list due on the chopping block. LWB didn't bring any negatives nor is it obsolete. If anything the issue stems from Rhienlands 'identical unlawfuls' syndrome and how they all play second fiddle to Red Hessians.

The only factions I've been comfortable with the removal of are RoS and IKN. RoS is a relic of times past that has poorly written and edgy lore that isn't consistent with the rest of the mod, furthermore it's gameplay purpose - Edge Worlds lawfuls - is carried about by far more active factions like Core and BHG. With the closure of the Kusari Civil War, IKN doesn't really have a reason to exist in either roleplay or gameplay. LWB at least has an RP purpose which makes it relevant. I'd suggest that additive measures should be looked at to make them more interesting for gameplay.

I really don't think "lack of player base" or whatever is a valid reason to remove a faction. It's also dumb to just say "hurr no one is coming forward to make an LWB faction therefore people's criticism isn't important".

And hey, I made a GJ faction and the ID got removed anyway afterwards. So why would it even matter?

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[sasapinjic]

After 22 hours since the thread was posted, after nine pages of (not solely) tears about LWB's (temporary) removal, after at least one ragequit of a vet, and after I asked no less than three times if there is anyone willing to actually play LWB I have not seen anyone coming forward saying "me", just people raging "muh sacred vanilla faction" and "removing factions is bad/stupid/cancerous/whatever" left and right. The only more or less reasonable point I found appearing here against removing the faction was that we have already enough unused guard IFFs to recycle before having to touch factions currently in use, and even that still touches only half of the reasoning behind the decision on LWB's fate.

Keep up with the tears, kids.

@Devs
Penance looks nice for now, even despite the glitches, though I hoped this time Council gets the big gun as well. Tests will continue after the hotfix.
Aspis looks nice, though the extra turret slots lacking their base makes them look a bit weird.
I haven't got time to check all the other new features yet.

me

[Vulkhard Muller]

I'm indifferent to LWB, haven't played it myself, nor find it interesting enough for me to play it (at least currently). If that's enough reason to remove a faction, then there's a huge list due on the chopping block. LWB didn't bring any negatives nor is it obsolete. If anything the issue stems from Rhienlands 'identical unlawfuls' syndrome and how they all play second fiddle to Red Hessians.

The only factions I've been comfortable with the removal of are RoS and IKN. RoS is a relic of times past that has poorly written and edgy lore that isn't consistent with the rest of the mod, furthermore it's gameplay purpose - Edge Worlds lawfuls - is carried about by far more active factions like Core and BHG. With the closure of the Kusari Civil War, IKN doesn't really have a reason to exist in either roleplay or gameplay. LWB at least has an RP purpose which makes it relevant. I'd suggest that additive measures should be looked at to make them more interesting for gameplay.

I really don't think "lack of player base" or whatever is a valid reason to remove a faction. It's also dumb to just say "hurr no one is coming forward to make an LWB faction therefore people's criticism isn't important".

I have to say I agree with lyth here, LWB are by no means my favroite faction, but they suffered from what I dub "Watered down hessians" problem. They were stuck in Rheinland , had one main target ( synth) and they never really had a self identity. I really liked the way that things were moving with unioners going corsair Hessians staying Coalition, and tbh I think seeing LWB go Outcast Lite would have been cool. Not full on Outcast Cardi slaves, but more so, being farming specialists working in tandem with them to grow cardi off Malta. Something I think would have been cool would have been some sort of commodity that was restricted by Rheinland that sold high on unlawful stations in other houses a sort of Food product restricted by the Rheinland(if not all houses except those potentially sympathetic like Kusari) government (I know how ridiculous it sounds)


I seriously think the LWB have potential but because they do not have the opportunity other factions need. One possible fix could be expanding their ZOI similar to a idea I had for the gains, allow them to have access to any system with a Synth Foods base. While I am not a person who thinks they should stay by reasons of Vanilla Sacredness, I don't want them dropped entirely.

Another Idea I had while typing this was If indeed we need to remove the LWB, why not merge the "Eco Terrorists" of Sirius? LWB FA Gaians turn them all into the "Eco Front of Sirius" ( or something less cheesy) a Democratically left winged group opposed to Terraforming, Genetic Engineering, or Genetic Modification of natural resources. Give them Rheinland Bretonia and Liberty in their ZOI with Kusari and Gallia as Neutral (Gallia neutral Unfriendly seeing as EFL has begun terraforming projects on Planet Harris) Samura would remain a sympathizer of the Organization and Kusari would more or less be a safe haven for them ( as all three factions do sort of have a neutral status in Kusari) While yes this would remove them all this would allow them to keep a unique feel, pull them all away from their current ruts in activity. Also by unifying the shiplines would make for interesting dynamics as factions around Sirius have to deal with this new Dynamic.

Major reputations:
Coalition Neutral
Rheinland Hostile
Bretonia: Hostile
Liberty: Hostile
Kusari: Neutral
Gallia: Neutral Unfriendly


How to divvy up the reputation could be tricky but I suppose averaging out the reputation of the sum totals could work.

gonna put this in its own thread to get a Community discussion going

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[Petitioner]

why not merge the "Eco Terrorists" of Sirius? LWB FA Gaians turn them all into the "Eco Front of Sirius" ( or something less cheesy) a Democratically left winged group opposed to Terraforming, Genetic Engineering, or Genetic Modification of natural resources

The LWB are of ambiguous political alignment aside from their core issue, the Gaians are hinted at being vaguely left-leaning, and the Farmer's Alliance is explicitly a traditionalist, right-wing, Kusari suprematist group. None of them have any particular reason to work together beyond "we don't like soulless corporations exploiting our people/natural resources/both" (unless they're Samura, in the FA's case).

How to divvy up the reputation could be tricky but I suppose averaging out the reputation of the sum totals could work.

Taking three different factions and watering them all down until there's nothing unique left, only their vague common ground, is only going to create an incredibly bland and soulless-feeling entity.

LWB at least has an RP purpose which makes it relevant

...to the entirety of a single system. As awesome of a concept and aesthetic as it is, it's not feasible in the presnt server environment. To make the LWB more interesting is an impossible task - giving them more bases, ships, resources, and foreign contacts denies them of their style and soul, which is "poor-as-sh*t dirt farmers desperately fighting for the little they had in the first place". It's like saying "give the Xenos a reskinned LSC so they become more viable" - it's the exact opposite of what the faction is about, and that would make them no fun to roleplay. Might as well just merge them with the Unioners or the Hessians in that case (which is kind of what happened).

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[Cypher]

Just a thought as a future possible feature - hypergates were a part of vanilla, is there a chance we could be using them in the future to get to more systems?

[SnakThree]

Just a thought as a future possible feature - hypergates were a part of vanilla, is there a chance we could be using them in the future to get to more systems?

There is no gameplay difference if using hypergate, jump gate, jump drive or jump hole. New systems are not being added to the mod due to extensive effort required to make them worth the visit and in the end, it will just act as distraction from player-player interactions.

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[Sombs]

Yeah. Why would one want to explore stuff in Discovery when you can interact with Snak3's Lane Hacker characters.

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[Sand_Spider]

Honestly, I think it'd be neat to see a Hypergate linking Rheinland with Gallia. Yes, I realize this would cause a need to re-balance trade routes, but it would still be nifty to see. Both Houses are so darn far away from one another, and yet I've seen a definite interest in Gallic and Rheinlandic factions interacting with each other.

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A Pretty Helpful Tutorial Database!
Player Base Supply Chain!
Every Faction Explained in a Single Sentence!
Why be a BitterVet, when you can be a BetterVet?

[Thyrzul]

Devs told me it won't happen.

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