(12-22-2018, 12:11 AM)Lusitano Wrote: i bet that even if brets lose every single day on omega 49, they will win at the end any way!!!
Welcome to fighting Gallia bro.
Seriously, time for suggestions.
I have to concede that if the Gallic conflict and all of the rest didn't have an aspect of player driven influence, I'd have had no interest in story plot at all. Dev/Admin guidance though is also necessary.
Time to come to an accord on something here. At the same time, players perceive things as happening faster than they have to be. For now, yes, let a few pews go down, let it be RPable. Go from there. Probably safer to avoid too much player irritation, allow for some changes but nothing permanent until other situations are resolved. This does make it seem we have a little bit too much going on plot wise with Bretonia. If I were being told Bretonia is just being written to lose, I'd not be happy (especially because of this move). I can't support forcing the same thing on the Zoners. However, Gran Canaria is no Leeds, don't forget that either.
There are two arguments story wise: Bretonia must do this to help justify a comeback ~vs~ Bretonia shouldn't be in there until after a come back.
I don't support a retcon though, that breaks RP momentum and its better to salvage the current scenario (unless literally every faction leadership involved wanted it). Seizing the planet would be possible, and set up a new situation RP/PVP wise I'm sure many would be able to fit into, good or bad. From there though, it is only fair to allow for some challenge by the opposing side, with a chance to have a reasonable effect. But this will require everybody sort of knowing this is how it's going to be before moving forward. Every war should be like this.
It may not be a story advancement event, but these events should be validly RP'able, and the over all RP should be weighed in there when it comes time for big story advancement events (or there is not nearly as much fun in them).
I said this in a chat earlier that its like we have 2 sets of Gods here that conflict to control our timeline. (freedom vs determinism???) And us mortals are also trying to push for what we want. I just hope we can find a way to move forward and not have everyone stonewall everyone else until time just completely stops in Sirius. Or even worse, winds up looking like complete nonsense.
I believe I should comment to clear things up from my perspective.
I was told, along with everyone else that there would be battleship put into Omega-49 with the intention to annex the planet. As far as I am aware, there was little anyone could do about it (I was not in the dev chats at the time, you will need to clear that with Gagadug). At the time, I was not impressed with the situation but, being under the impression that I couldn't do anything about it, decided to roll with it and make the best of a bad situation.
In anycase, I managed to hash some things out with other faction leaders and so on. So I thought, great I'm charging around making RP and pushing us (Bretonia) towards a good position, the RP is legit, it's all on the forums, It was all more or less agreed upon by the parties involved and we all agreed that we'd try to see how far we could go.
But make no mistake, no one was happy. I was quite happy to not go in to Omega-49, simply because I had already built some fairly complex diplomacy so having a Battleship walk in suddenly, upset the balance quite a bit and caused me and other people I had been speaking to, to reevaluate our diplomacy, which caused more than a few headaches. I have never been impressed by this turn of events but I said I'd go with it, because it's interesting, and I think it'll make for some interesting interaction, diplomacy and RP (which it already has). But the screams of bloody murder haven't gone anywhere, I've got people left right and center explaining how ''It's stupid'' or ''It's not the way Bretonia does things''. I have tried to ensure this goes down without people loosing their minds, and you can see how well that has worked.
So yes, in point of fact, while the battleship rocking on up was (as far as I am aware) a dev move, everything afterwards has been player driven, which explains why it's a mess because, because of course it is, nothing is easy. Yes, true there was a rumor around about how if Bretonia didn't go through with this, we would loose the war. I don't know where it came from but it's not true.
I don't think the devs lied at all, I just think there is a great deal of miscommunication. I think that the contested status accurately reflects the current situation in Omega-49. I think that no body is happy, but that really isn't my problem and I believe that this has been going on for long enough for people to be more than aware of the situation, and like it or not, it's happening. There has been RP, threads, arguments, debates explanations and counter arguments and still no one is happy.
I tried to make it work from my end, it didn't work, this is what we got.
(12-21-2018, 11:01 PM)SnakThree Wrote: People should just stop having ooRP feelings towards each other and fully immerse themselves within inRP environment. Stop hating players, start hating characters. Stop flaming players, start insulting characters.
As a pretty new player, I don't really have a horse in this race, but this. So much this. As long term DM/GM, I also feel I should +1 AndyTV22's Comment; RP - from the traditional DnD tabletop,
to the most avant-garde LRP needs to be player driven. That being said, it should be down to the devs to interpret those actions in an appropriately 'story-dramatic' fashion - and people will ALWAYS disagree on the exact details. From an external point of view, the story as far as I can make it out, has both logical and wholly unbelievable story elements, but it seems to me that the only way to deal with any RP situation is to play it out IC as your character would.
As I said though, I have no horse in this race and barely know whats going on - I really can't say who is right or wrong here, though I suspect perhaps there may be a little of both?
Let's throw Zoners out of the board for the moment and think about bigger Bretonian neighbours.
Rheinland has one of the best opportunities to poke out casus belli towards Bretonia, or rather excuse to do police action towards Omega-3. What Bretonia did in Freelancer Campaign (they declared war on Rheinland for forcefully taking control of Omega-7 and blocking Omega-3), due to events in Omega-49, may be used as precedence towards it. While Rheinland may be at war with Kusari, they are not really waging a full-scale war but what I'd call indecisive skirmishes between expeditionary forces in Sigmas, away from either house space.
Rheinland also lost Dresden and access to one of their resource cows. With Omega-7 already under their control, the next move would be to push into Omega-3 and try to obtain some control over Bretonian resources, seeing how thin already their forces are. Those are not the times when short-lived conflict between Bretonia and Rheinland ended with white peace as BAF was still strong in power. Liberty Navy would not really want to move into Cambridge and father into Omegas as well given the mess in New London.
Liberty would not act hostile towards Rheinland as well due to economical ties which cannot be replaced by their only ally - as loss of Southampton was a critical strike on already poor production capacity. Besides, Liberty would not risk losing yet another gate and being cut off from Rheinland market completely - and Ageira being replaced by EFL.
If that wouldn't be alone for Liberty, there is a reasonable fear of dragging Rheinland into the full-scale war against Liberty. And that could end up pretty badly, given how far GRN went into Cortez, Magellan and California.
But then, this is the scenario on basis of my Political Studies' knowledge and analysis of the current in-lore events.
Almost, but nope. Rheinland doesn't really care about Omega-3, as of now. Altough it does possess a shipyard, and a habitable planet, It's not as rich as the deep Omegas. They won't care about GC too much, since Bretonia taking it means both the corsairs and the hessians get denied of a rather great deal of market, and supplies.
And while it's easy to guess that Port Jackson came to life to have a Bretonian beachhead when it wants to take the planet, and push into the omegas, it was rushed. Now the RP reason is denying the Gallics reinforcements from their Corsair allies, by taking out their best supply point towards Bretonia. And since someone will come to b**** about why are we sending forces when NL is under siege, those are the ships that are unfit against the gauls, on the note of being obsolete designs
GRNs push into Magellan, Cortez and California is because lore-wise the Navy isn't fully deployed like it is now. Liberty still has a plentiful fleet at home ready to combat any threats that arise. Rheinland has to act soon, Munich is almost completely gone and the Sigma war has stalemated now that it's involved Kusari on GMGs side. Liberty's forces are sufficient for a multi-front scenario, backed up by the plentiful forces of Whitefield, Fairmont, Rio Grande, Missouri, Mississippi, alongside their respective taskforces.
Combined with Libertys wide industrial capability, Liberty has the most sustainability for a multi-front scenario. Liberty's just now getting fully set in the war, and has sufficient forces to brute force their way through Magellan and Cortez with acceptable losses. If a second war between Liberty and Rheinland breaks out, Liberty has sufficient forces to hold the line in Hudson. It would be a gamble for Rheinland, as the new Kusari Empire may see it as an opportunity and turn the Sigma War into more than just a border skirmish and launch a full attack on Rheinland. Rheinland would then be pressed into a multi-front war alongside any issues that arise from the south.
In this scenario, Rheinland wouldn't be able to divide forces very efficiently to counter a full invasion from a Kusari combined fleet while keeping Liberty at bay aswell. One front would fold with time, they'd have to choose to stand their ground against Libertys war machine and declare the Sigma's a sufficient loss and face invasion in Stuttgart, or fight Kusari and GMG in all-out war and hope they secure enough ground to replace the losses they'll take in a Libertonian push.
Gallia's current war situation puts them in a bad position to issue demands from the Kusari Empire, they cannot risk opening yet another front from Kusari skirmish forces. The bulk of Gallia's forces are too entrenched in London to pull back now, and the majority of their home fleet is tied down fighting the Council with varying success. They cannot risk another organized military entering the fray against them, as a Kusari skirmish force would choke out Gallic supply lines with raiding forces, and Gallia has precious few assets left to make an assertive action against Kusari.
Edit: Also, Rheinlands already in the process of replacing Ageira with EFL anyway, a war would only speed things up.
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