I've heard about Aland and i did not agree with that either. I don't want the story to please everyone. Since we all know thats not possible. I want it to not be full with lazy and cheap solutions.
Uncreative as this event really was, I think it's no use ranting about warfare in Disco being stupid or unrealistic. It has always been so, and I doubt this will ever change.
(08-31-2019, 09:04 PM)DarkTails Wrote: 2. Additional usage of never before mentioned, pre-constructed or any such explanation of a plot device that had never existed until the exact moment it was used.
I assume these super-duper weapon platforms that obliterated the Ottawa were the secret project that 'The Great Hunt' event was all about, idk. I admit it's a rather silly assumption, but I'm just desperately trying to find anything that would make that event relevant to the current developments in the storyline.
(08-31-2019, 09:04 PM)DarkTails Wrote: 3. Additional failure to provide any sound or tactical usage of fleet movements or fleet combat, failure to allow anyone or anything to go through to have your scripted death interfered with.
4. Failure to portray accurate behavior of combat fleet sending its forward guard in first, then itself and the main force. A flagship never goes into combat first as alone.
Etc.
The storyline is not developed full-time by paid professional writers, in association with advisors on military tactics. The people in charge of the storyline will, and have always, cut corners wherever possible. That is why we had laughably inept everyone get steamrolled by Gallia over last decade, and why we are now having laughably inept Gallia lose everything to the suddenly empowered everyone. The story demands the Royalists be pushed back, and now we witness the Royalists suddenly become a bunch of drooling morons (I'm still not over them abandoning a lawless system one jump away from IDF and letting the Council amass an entire fleet there all while having an intelligence vessel watching over the system).
Same here - the Ottawa needed to die for the purpose of the story, to show the inevitability of heavy losses while breaking through enemy fortifications to secure a foothold (and maybe to give tangible consequences to 'The Great Hunt' event, yea I'm still holding out for that). And this was just orchestrated in the most clumsy way possible. Guess we'll just have to roll with yet another 'storytelling conventionality' here.
What was really upsetting though, is the fact that the event was once again organized as a massive meatgrinder in which all participants murder each other at one place in one system. The server can't handle this, and everything once again turned into a confusing lagfest.
Was it possible to separate the action between two systems? Like for example, some Gauls have to make a daring foray through the NL Jump Hole to try and flank the Allied forces on the other side? Or venture out from Aquitaine into Dublin, seeking to deal one final blow to Bretonia's gold-mining industry? Imo, that would have not only prevented excessive server lag, but also added a measure of believability to the strategy employed by the warring sides, make it so it appears at least somewhat three-dimensional and competent.
Alas, what we got today was an uninspired and laggy meatgrinder.
(09-01-2019, 12:23 AM)Kokopelli Wrote: I assume these super-duper weapon platforms that obliterated the Ottawa were the secret project that 'The Great Hunt' event was all about, idk. I admit it's a rather silly assumption, but I'm just desperately trying to find anything that would make that event relevant to the current developments in the storyline.
The issue with using these world-ending, highly classified and unbeatable super weapons (hereafter referred to in all ways including this one as Convenient Plot Devices, or CPDs) is that not only was there zero build up for these things, but also that the tactic of them being employed was absolutely illogical considering the tactics of the day and age. You do not expect an invasion to take place without first-hand intelligence of the battlefield you're going to fight in. This has Discovery standing as well as real-life standing. Think about it. How long did Operation: Overlord (the invasion of Normandy, France) take to plan? How much intelligence was gathered to ensure that the invasion was even a marginal success? How much recon was made to gather that intelligence? A boat load more than was made here.
I'm not saying the devs should have spent fourteen updates detailing the Allied invasion plan, nor am I saying that the way it was played today (from what I hear, bear in mind, because I cannot log for these damn things) was the right way to do it. If Gallia wanted these super-weapons to be employed, and they wanted to catch the allies off guard, cloaking technology does exist and is canon.
As for 'The Great Hunt', the implementation of the consequences of that event had to be employed somewhere. As much as I am pissed about how they were implemented here today, I do want to say that the CPDs employed here were by far the best placement for them, and I like that. Despite how unimaginably rigged 'The Great Hunt' was, and how unbelievably irritating it was during that time, the CPD implementation here was admittedly pretty clever imo.
It does not, however, detract from just how poor the execution of this event was, again from what I've heard.
I'd recommend a do-over like that with 'Clash of the Titans', and maybe implement a more covert way to use these CPDs. I hate CPDs as a concept, but when executed correctly they can be just as fulfilling as any other method. It may take another week maybe, but the outcome may be more in the realm of what the team may be desiring instead of another bout of '**** you devs' and 'ah, sh*tty storyline' and blah, blah, blah.
I read most of the comments and noticed that most of the negative reviews were due to the fact that "We sent Ottawa just like that and lost it very quickly!"
At the same time, Ottawa turned out to be a simple player (as I understood from the words of Immortality). That is, the result of the event depended only on how allies in this battle will harmoniously show themselves.
But the way Ottawa died is a mistake of the Allies, nothing more. Due to the lack of banal cooperation, you threw all your strength into battle immediately without sending intelligence. You even (I'm sure) have not decided on who will command the entire fleet. You simply accepted some unknown people into the group and you think that you will win this way.
Gentlemen, things are not done like that. The strength of Reptilie-team (sorry to poke my finger, but I have to show a good example) is not so much in the number of large ships on their part, but in the ability to determine the actions of its participants through voice communication. The strength of the Fifth Fleet was not so much in number, but in isolationism from everyone else when they flew into Liberty (that is, they accepted only members of their faction into their group), and hell - it helped them! The strength of our Council movement is that we generally resort to inviting foreign players only when necessary, since our team is CIS players.
And what is the strength of the union of Bretonia and Liberty? In the strength of their fleet? People, how long is the war with Gallia going on, and you still have not thought of making any one voice communication channel? Okay, did you know that a person in Ottawa will not be a Game Master, but an ordinary player? If so, what exactly prevented you from discussing tactics and strategy with him?
The Leeds event shows how fragmented the forces of the allies are and how cooperated the forces of Gallia are. The death of Ottawa is not the fault of developers or game masters. This is the fault of the players who went into battle, not knowing the basic tactics of warfare (you have to aim before shooting). Your battle reminded me of the beginning of the Northern war, when Peter I thought that he could defeat the Swedish army, but in reality this army crushingly crushed his army. Only here is one difference - Peter began the reorganization of the troops almost immediately, which led to success. The allies in Discovery have not been able to make a single command for so many years, although they have become brothers in arms.
So guys are your mistake, not developers or game masters. You have been given full control over the event, the loss of Ottawa (I repeat) is the fault of your lack of organization and weakness. I could be wrong, because I was not there. The only negative that I saw on the video is the server’s weakness in front of so many players. If the server under such conditions has fallen before, when there were 225 people online, then it will continue to fall.
If I am mistaken in something, then those who know the details can write to me in PM. I just don’t like that because of the tears of some, the others are guilty. This is not what the community should strive for.
(09-01-2019, 03:26 AM)Liberty.In Wrote: I read most of the comments and noticed that most of the negative reviews were due to the fact that "We sent Ottawa just like that and lost it very quickly!"
At the same time, Ottawa turned out to be a simple player (as I understood from the words of Immortality). That is, the result of the event depended only on how allies in this battle will harmoniously show themselves.
But the way Ottawa died is a mistake of the Allies, nothing more. Due to the lack of banal cooperation, you threw all your strength into battle immediately without sending intelligence. You even (I'm sure) have not decided on who will command the entire fleet. You simply accepted some unknown people into the group and you think that you will win this way.
Gentlemen, things are not done like that. The strength of Reptilie-team (sorry to poke my finger, but I have to show a good example) is not so much in the number of large ships on their part, but in the ability to determine the actions of its participants through voice communication. The strength of the Fifth Fleet was not so much in number, but in isolationism from everyone else when they flew into Liberty (that is, they accepted only members of their faction into their group), and hell - it helped them! The strength of our Council movement is that we generally resort to inviting foreign players only when necessary, since our team is CIS players.
And what is the strength of the union of Bretonia and Liberty? In the strength of their fleet? People, how long is the war with Gallia going on, and you still have not thought of making any one voice communication channel? Okay, did you know that a person in Ottawa will not be a Game Master, but an ordinary player? If so, what exactly prevented you from discussing tactics and strategy with him?
The Leeds event shows how fragmented the forces of the allies are and how cooperated the forces of Gallia are. The death of Ottawa is not the fault of developers or game masters. This is the fault of the players who went into battle, not knowing the basic tactics of warfare (you have to aim before shooting). Your battle reminded me of the beginning of the Northern war, when Peter I thought that he could defeat the Swedish army, but in reality this army crushingly crushed his army. Only here is one difference - Peter began the reorganization of the troops almost immediately, which led to success. The allies in Discovery have not been able to make a single command for so many years, although they have become brothers in arms.
So guys are your mistake, not developers or game masters. You have been given full control over the event, the loss of Ottawa (I repeat) is the fault of your lack of organization and weakness. I could be wrong, because I was not there. The only negative that I saw on the video is the server’s weakness in front of so many players. If the server under such conditions has fallen before, when there were 225 people online, then it will continue to fall.
If I am mistaken in something, then those who know the details can write to me in PM. I just don’t like that because of the tears of some, the others are guilty. This is not what the community should strive for.
Finally someone said it. Players do have a reason this didn't go well at the start. But at the same time, There was a lack of a goal. When i went into the other side of the jumpgate thinking we could go through, I was told that the devs said no jumping yet, But ottawa was getting harmed by the weapon platforms while i was trying my damnest as a bomber to stop them. But only a few hopped into the other side. We could've saved it. We could've ignored the so called dev-statement and continued it Slightly off-course but still guarding the ship we're supposed to protect. But our capital fleet was staying back thanks to orders that shouldn't been made.
During the laggy incidents, I'm not sure how many of us were affects, But as one of the bombers for bretonia, I couldn't see ANY targets of capital ships thanks to the server having a couple of issues until the second crash which showed the ships we needed to stop. By the time that happened, about 6 of our allies to tossed into the omicrons Via jumpdrive.
I really enjoyed the fight, Like i usually do with large scaled battles. But, We need to have better work on Co-ordination.
I had a bit of time to think, I'll probbablly have to go through my own video at some point. But here's the thing.
To my knowledge:
Allied side needs to work on communication. They lost the Ottawa from refusing to enter the Jumpgate.
I do think there should be a "backup plan" as a failsafe in case things like this do happen. Devs could come up with something I imagine. I don't think the Ottawa dying so quickly was the plan.
What was bizzare was that in the frantic time i was on the other side, my weapons were not harming the Corona Weapon Platforms. Uh, Was that supposed to happen?
I was really hoping this event would be as good as the New london one. But, Eh. I can't imagine how much work it would be to do that again in such a short time. Regardless, I still had a lot of fun.
(09-01-2019, 04:40 AM)diamond1 Wrote: Allied side needs to work on communication. They lost the Ottawa from refusing to enter the Jumpgate.
From what I could gather, the reason the Ottawa was left without any backup was because the gate was forcibly locked by the developers after the Ottawa jumped, leaving the rest of the main assault force to sit back and twiddle their thumbs while the Ottawa got smashed to pieces. From accounts in-game by faction members of mine who were there, one guy who jumped after the Ottawa was locked in the jumping sequence because the gate had been locked, preventing him from escaping and forbidding the people on the New London side from following.
If I'm wrong about any of this, please feel free to correct me. I wasn't there, and all of my accounts are from those who were, but from what I can gather the entire setup was rigged, as with all CPDs, and forced the allied side to adjust to a stipulation that was only placed after the Ottawa had suicide jumped.