(09-02-2019, 01:38 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: The Orange Treaty is mostly ignored by indies.
There's plenty of people who remember and abide by the treaty. And in the end that's what the treaty is there for, when some lolwut brings an OC cap to liberty they get rekt. Treaty could probably do with some better publication, but newbs & indies not being aware of developed RP lore is hardly new. I've found you can explain to them easily enough - and if they decide they don't care, that's what nova's are for.
The specifics of the treaty however are probably non-canon to the RP of the NPC factions and indies.
I mean, there really is no big deal with it. People either care for it, which is appreciated by any involved faction, or they ignore it, either out of protest or for the sake of having simple fights. The treaty is merely a regulation to ensure people know when they get shot by someone that usually wouldn't shoot them. In that case, it's their fault and they have to live with it. Since it is currently mostly only enforced by LH and Rogues, it's not even that much of a hassle.
People getting angry over it are just looking for a reason to express anger.
So coming here as a part of the OC leadership, I can cast an idea of how OC treat it atm.
1. Aside from indies, OC rarely fly into Lolberty on caps for a few reasons, be they personal preference (or lack thereof) or sheer time needed to get there and back (plus nasty asteroids if you are in a Ranseur). Therefore, Lolberty is relevant mostly for indie caps that just want to have some pews due to Liberty being one of the most active zones with easy navigation around. Treaty bans them and confuses with green ships threatening and attacking them. The right of the locals, of course, but OC OF will not sign under such a limitation for our indies.
2. Stemming from point 1, the Treaty and its divisions of zones of influences maybe was logical back when Disco had online over 100 people. Then activity was everywhere and capspamming even from allies might have been an issue. This is no longer the case and people struggle to find a fight. Bretonia being allied to Malta, Kusari and Gallia being dead, Rheinland being dead out of OC ZOI, for cap fight and other fights, as well as for piracy, people go to Liberty. As for piracy - many OC violating the treaty are indies-newbies who know Liberty well from SP or just feel familiar with it after starting there as a newcomer.
3. Even ooRP the treaty is no longer seen as beneficial for OC OF. For cardi selling we have trade agreements which are pretty simple: you want - you buy. Simple commerce. Sharing tech part mostly pertains to OC being asked to provide caps. InRP our caps are pretty fine and hitech so giving them away, even to allies, is a liability unless we are certain of what we are doing. Besides, it is hard to get even the snubs of LH shared, so no point in what is not working already. Other parts of the treaty are quite vague and not RP impactful, so no additional incentive from those.
So, the observation of the treaty is thus deferred to individuals and whether they want to do it personally or not. The LH and LR can do what they think is rightful as long as the ID allows it, so the playerbase is to keep that in mind. After all, this is an RP server where players create all sorts of RP. But that will stay rather an arbitrary non-binding RP.
Tl;DR if you care about the treaty - follow it, if not - don't. Current OC OF do not recognise it tho.
(09-02-2019, 03:22 PM)Mr.Cardaminum Wrote: So coming here as a part of the OC leadership, I can cast an idea of how OC treat it atm.
1. Aside from indies, OC rarely fly into Lolberty on caps for a few reasons, be they personal preference (or lack thereof) or sheer time needed to get there and back (plus nasty asteroids if you are in a Ranseur). Therefore, Lolberty is relevant mostly for indie caps that just want to have some pews due to Liberty being one of the most active zones with easy navigation around. Treaty bans them and confuses with green ships threatening and attacking them. The right of the locals, of course, but OC OF will not sign under such a limitation for our indies.
2. Stemming from point 1, the Treaty and its divisions of zones of influences maybe was logical back when Disco had online over 100 people. Then activity was everywhere and capspamming even from allies might have been an issue. This is no longer the case and people struggle to find a fight. Bretonia being allied to Malta, Kusari and Gallia being dead, Rheinland being dead out of OC ZOI, for cap fight and other fights, as well as for piracy, people go to Liberty. As for piracy - many OC violating the treaty are indies-newbies who know Liberty well from SP or just feel familiar with it after starting there as a newcomer.
3. Even ooRP the treaty is no longer seen as beneficial for OC OF. For cardi selling we have trade agreements which are pretty simple: you want - you buy. Simple commerce. Sharing tech part mostly pertains to OC being asked to provide caps. InRP our caps are pretty fine and hitech so giving them away, even to allies, is a liability unless we are certain of what we are doing. Besides, it is hard to get even the snubs of LH shared, so no point in what is not working already. Other parts of the treaty are quite vague and not RP impactful, so no additional incentive from those.
So, the observation of the treaty is thus deferred to individuals and whether they want to do it personally or not. The LH and LR can do what they think is rightful as long as the ID allows it, so the playerbase is to keep that in mind. After all, this is an RP server where players create all sorts of RP. But that will stay rather an arbitrary non-binding RP.
Tl;DR if you care about the treaty - follow it, if not - don't. Current OC OF do not recognise it tho.
Thanks for your elaborate answer, I think I'll go by that.
I agree that the Orange Treaty is largely unknown, wouldn't a rather simple fix be to include links to treaties in the law sections of the involved houses though? Sure it wouldn't work for all factions, but it would go a long way to keep track of what arrangements and agreements have been made ingame.
(09-02-2019, 07:39 PM)Promotheus Wrote: I agree that the Orange Treaty is largely unknown, wouldn't a rather simple fix be to include links to treaties in the law sections of the involved houses though? Sure it wouldn't work for all factions, but it would go a long way to keep track of what arrangements and agreements have been made ingame.
Well, that's a topic for another thread, I just wanted to know if people care or not. It also apparently has several reasons that the treaty has been forgotten, according to some people here. I mean, rules should be there to serve the quality of RP, not just for the sake of having them, and maybe this one is just outdated. But it seems like the remaining player base is quite split up regarding their opinions.