(10-26-2020, 07:07 AM)Groshyr Wrote: Since the comment above will be totally annihilated as soon as any moderator/game master will visit this place, here is a special explanation for all the people who think the Enclave had to side the Kusari.
As a prelude - you are flower if you think we would.
The Enclave are GRN and GRI soldiers, which grew in the best traditions of the Gallic military and navy. They will not betray their people only because there is a possibility that weebs will help them to restore the monarchy (what is not beneficial for the weebs at all). Unlike the Council, they will not side to any outsider just to defeat an enemy: they will adapt and find another way, by making public image of the Enclave be better than Confederal one, for example. A war with the ideological opponent, where is no bullet shot, because this is informational war.
Also the whole the weebs denounced the royalists and said they were invading to bring them to justice part of the war so it would make even less sense for Kusari to ally with Enclave.
(10-26-2020, 02:45 AM)Karlotta Wrote: Why is Enclave siding with Confederates instead of allying with Kusari as a means to regain control of Gallia?
Hello. Thank your for your feedback and detailed analysis of "how the faction I don't know a ***** about would act". It's indeed important for us to get your opinion as the superior node of Discovery. We are honoured, that the member of High Command, one of the most active members of the faction, that have betrayed another faction (IMG), which gave Colonial Republic a shelter in the moment of need and helped to become what the Republic is now. It was indeed a gentle and polite move to side Bretonia in Aland Crisis and show your respect toward the favour the IMG made in the past. We will follow the way of the Colonial Republic, and prove that there is no patriotism, only betrayal and siding with outsider in the moment, when your own house is under attack, and your own people are dying because of drunk kusarian captains bumping civilian bases.
(10-26-2020, 03:09 AM)Karlotta Wrote: Because national unity and integrity is everything to a bunch of genocidal authoritarians who had no problem sending their soldiers to their deaths and oppressing their own populations before they were ousted in a civil war by the guys they're now siding with because muh gallia.
A very good reason to keep sides unbalanced too. For the rEaLiStiC rP!
And here is my last words: ***** off from the things you don't understand, Colonial.
Really Grosh?? I think the question states about Gallia and how things got to that point, not CR-IMG relations. If you are that upset about it, put some ice over your wound and take it to the respective factions feedback. A person asked a question and should be ignored or answered without looking of the faction they belong.
(10-26-2020, 03:09 AM)Karlotta Wrote: Because national unity and integrity is everything to a bunch of genocidal authoritarians who had no problem sending their soldiers to their deaths and oppressing their own populations before they were ousted in a civil war by the guys they're now siding with because muh gallia.
A very good reason to keep sides unbalanced too. For the rEaLiStiC rP!
If we start talking about "realistic RP" let's start from the premises of the war under which Kusari should not even have the capacity to lead an offensive war with invasion after economy depleted by 813-817 war with Bretonia, 817 obliteration by the Gallic Royal Forces, 817-825 Gallic puppet regime, 823 (?) - 25 - civil war, 825 - conflict with Rheinland. And people say w years are enough to restore economy after that.
If we speak about "rEaLiStiC rP", then one needs to take into account the economy side of war which is the most important actually unless you can win in a few battles with blitzkrieg which is not the case here. If we turn to how most countries were restoring after the war (either WWI or WWII, or more local conflicts) you will see it takes much more time to restore to pre-war state. Even Japan managed to launch economy by mid 1960-s and only with the assistance of the US who forcibly opened their market to cheap Japanese goods.
As for the Enclave - you think they would further their goals more by siding with Kusari who explicitly said they were after war criminals from the Duchy (and the Enclave, obviously) to get the label of collaborationists and never get the badly needed support within Gallia and lose the support they already have? Yeah, mucho logic. You win the couch geopolitician prize, congratulations.
Wow people are triggered. To address a few things said:
- (this had nothing to do with the topic and was just argumentum ad hominem that has 0 to do with the actual matter) IMG collaborated with CR in a mutually beneficial agreement, when there was an IMG leadership and membership that was literally the diametrical opposite in personnel and behavior of what it was during the Aland crisis. What ever "help" IMG gave CR was given years ago by completely different people (or RP characters) that showed completely different behavior, irp and oorp. Don't claim rewards for something you didn't do. Also, I wasnt even part of CR when aland happened so even your (failed) ad hominem is completely misdirected. If you want my stance on it... everyone was wrong. Devs were wrong to take the shipyard, IMG was wrong to reject their offer of better mining in Dublin and go hostile, and CR was wrong to not stay out of that clownshow.
- If royals were really that concerned with their own people's well being instead of personal power over everything, they wouldnt have been engulfed in a civil war and they wouldnt have sent their nation into a crazy world war they couldnt win. If you think such conflicts and tin-pot nationalist dictatorships are a sign of true love for one's people and not a way to control and abuse the ignorant masses for your own benefit, there is probably no convincing you anyway.
(10-26-2020, 09:56 AM)Shimamori Wrote:
(10-26-2020, 03:09 AM)Karlotta Wrote: Because national unity and integrity is everything to a bunch of genocidal authoritarians who had no problem sending their soldiers to their deaths and oppressing their own populations before they were ousted in a civil war by the guys they're now siding with because muh gallia.
A very good reason to keep sides unbalanced too. For the rEaLiStiC rP!
If we start talking about "realistic RP" let's start from the premises of the war under which Kusari should not even have the capacity to lead an offensive war with invasion after economy depleted by 813-817 war with Bretonia, 817 obliteration by the Gallic Royal Forces, 817-825 Gallic puppet regime, 823 (?) - 25 - civil war, 825 - conflict with Rheinland. And people say w years are enough to restore economy after that.
If we speak about "rEaLiStiC rP", then one needs to take into account the economy side of war which is the most important actually unless you can win in a few battles with blitzkrieg which is not the case here. If we turn to how most countries were restoring after the war (either WWI or WWII, or more local conflicts) you will see it takes much more time to restore to pre-war state. Even Japan managed to launch economy by mid 1960-s and only with the assistance of the US who forcibly opened their market to cheap Japanese goods.
As for the Enclave - you think they would further their goals more by siding with Kusari who explicitly said they were after war criminals from the Duchy (and the Enclave, obviously) to get the label of collaborationists and never get the badly needed support within Gallia and lose the support they already have? Yeah, mucho logic. You win the couch geopolitician prize, congratulations.
I never said the Kusari invasion, or the reason they gave for it, made any sense at all, or were a good choice.
I doubt that a militaristic faction dedicated to Gallia being better than everyone would side with Kusari, what Grosh was attempting to say beside the strange hate he was spewing was that the Enclave, or at least his faction as he can't speak for both \*/~ and MdG| is that if they side with the Gallic people they prove the legitimacy of their intentions and have a possibility of swaying public opinion back toward the monarchy and possibly overthrowing the Confederacy. That part makes sense.
My ideal, would be Enclave shooting both factions because they're essentially genocidal maniacs claiming to work for the good of the people, but it's not my faction.
However, the claim about overwhelming kusarians can't really be properly backed as the Enclave playerbase heavily overlaps with the Gallic playerbase, and if it really was ooRP hatred for kusari, they could log Confederacy just fine to outnumber Kusari without needing to log another faction to do so.
as DS said, there is also the part were this war was declared to destroy Gallia's warwolf technology, which only the Enclave is still in possession of, and the part where Kusari claimed to not be after civilians, yet they kind of blew up a civilian depot in Tau-23 and performed a hostile takeover of a civilian base in Tau-53 under the assumption they worked with Enclave, which they do and did. There is a foreign invader in their home that has previously insulted their king on numerous occasions, people with superiority complexes don't typically take kindly to those that insult their holy king on high horse, and would know better than to ally with a nation that didn't like their monarchy, as they'd essentially be choosing between lesser evils, which they were forced to do anyway when siding with the confederacy, because at least the confederates are actually gallic.
I don't fly any of these factions and this war is the type of homo I don't enjoy partaking in, so I'll go back to simping for DS.
Well recent events all seem to clarify for me the entire reason behind the Kusari-Gallia war. It seemed random at first, but after seeing the Enclave start to buddy to the Confederacy, and the handing over of Planet Quillan, it appears the whole war was to open a gap to justify migrating the Enclave back to Gallia. Don't mind me just conspiracy theorizing.
So are both sides going to just hug and make up? Enclave to the rescue?
Also, there was no opposing forces to the Enclave supply run, achieving high scores must have come pretty easy.
Having said that, if they wanna ditch Gaia to return back to Gallia, I guess won't complain any further. But does that mean the return of the civil war to Gallia, or a sly sneaky attempt return of the monarchy to New Paris?
Remember when the WAR started
With trumped up charges of wmds. When Kusari entered languedoc but didn't capture anything yet and Gallia tried to illegitimize "WAR"?
Confederates denied it yet immediately sign a non aggression pact, allowing warwolf Valors into languedoc openly, even defending that vehemently in and oorp?
I mean that one was hilarious. I didn't hear Karlotta complaining then.
Now Enclave will secure Languedoc, and obviously wants to oust Kusari to keep the gains. And confeds after so many losses should be desperate enough to throw morality and what they stand for out of the window
Especially unlike at the start of the first event, it's clear Kusari are fully commited and none other house will do anything about it
Both Kusari, Enclave, and everyone else can always choose to do a multitude of different things using a multitude of different justifications.
Kusari could have chosen to promise to re-instate the King as just ruler in exchange for the Enclave's support, and sell their invasion of Gallia as a liberation of Gallia from an illegitimate government.
They could theoretically have done that, if it had helped balance out numbers in pvp. They didnt "have to" do anything of what they did.
(10-26-2020, 10:36 AM)Binski Wrote: Well recent events all seem to clarify for me the entire reason behind the Kusari-Gallia war. It seemed random at first, but after seeing the Enclave start to buddy to the Confederacy, and the handing over of Planet Quillan, it appears the whole war was to open a gap to justify migrating the Enclave back to Gallia. Don't mind me just conspiracy theorizing.
So are both sides going to just hug and make up? Enclave to the rescue?
Also, there was no opposing forces to the Enclave supply run, achieving high scores must have come pretty easy.
Having said that, if they wanna ditch Gaia to return back to Gallia, I guess won't complain any further. But does that mean the return of the civil war to Gallia, or a sly sneaky attempt return of the monarchy to New Paris?
I have a theory
1) There was a poll if we keep old system names or not
2) old names won
3) Edinburgh gets renamed back
4) Devs realize - hey, we have gallics In Edinburgh (Vanilla bret system)permanently - isn't that confusing to new people, looks a little off?
5) Gallia is too big anyways for the number of players that play in core worlds
5) didn't want a standard civil boring war
- Gallia has a big player overlap
- Rh civ war didn't go well, players often ignore it
6) Kusari is underplayed - hey. Let's get them in, use them!
Enclave loses Edinburgh, gains languedoc, maybe Dauphine or parts of it
Kusari gets repelled
Bretonia swoops in, taking Edinburgh after losing Exeter (that also got renamed back to non-Bret name conveniently)
=> brets have bret sounding systems, Enclave has same amount of systems
=> confeds lose 1-2 systems. There wasn't enough of players for the sizer of their core world anyways
=> confeds will be depleted and not as angry at enclave because they teamed vs Kusari up and unable to take back Languagedoc (+maybe dauphine/parts of it)
=> new status quo established
And thats how WAR happened
(that means Kusari is 100% losing the war and will go back to Taus if I'm right - They are just a tool for system changes, while getting an underplayed house someone to pew)
/Mic drop
/Why this was thought out more oorp than to make in-RP sense
![[Image: CR_Eagle.gif]](https://s25.postimg.cc/d2dzs1wy7/CR_Eagle.gif)
