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Ravenna Nagash · 12-01-2021, 07:55 PM,

Hello team,

As per this thread, we would like to apply for an official status.

I believe the following information should be relevant to review and we cover all necessary requirements:

Basics

Wiki page of the Deterrence
Original unofficial group announcement

Faction threads

We've since updated the threads more in-line with the established model:

Faction Info and Recruitment
Message Dump
Feedback thread

RP Examples (can provide more if necessary)

Discovery of our base
Base summary
Invitation to partners
Event that we've organized
RP-ing with Order

Logistics

Leader: Ravenna Nagash
Second in Command: Sunset
IFF: Corsair
ID: Corsair
Members: Approximately 45 main members, not including current recruits of which there are around 36. With potentially more on the way depending on how much of my other communities I decide to bring in. I can provide Discord names if necessary.
Ship to get funds from for the tracker: DTR-Vision
Moderation to sub-forums should be provided to: @Ravenna Nagash and @DTR-Sunset.

What we would appreciate:

- Our own ID based on the Diplomacy outlined in our wiki page.
- 4x modifier on our ID when mining Xeno Relics.
- Some access to Liberty space or a slight increase of our ZOI so we have more border touch-space with Liberty Navy. To be clear, we just want to have more opportunity for RP, not invade Liberty.

What we offer:
- Bringing in more people to Freelancer Discovery.
- Providing a breath of fresh air, fighting new enemies (us).
- Events for everyone that gets to interact with us - enemies and friends alike.
- An environment that fuels communication.
- Fair and reasonable treatment.
- Helping with returning veterans and new players which seems to be a major weakness of the server.
- Updating and rebuilding the wiki space, which seems like an under-utilized tool that's not up-to-date or accurate.
- Proven history of leadership that accommodates others and treats everyone with respect.

I am happy to discuss the application with the administration team and to have an open and honest conversation. We are still learning the ways of the Server in terms of rules and general etiquette, but I don't believe that our occasional possible lapse would be problematic or last for long. I believe our enemies can also attest to our willingness to take their feedback on-board.

Happy to provide additional information that will facilitate the approval of this request.

In the mean time, we wish you safe flying and enjoy the incoming holidays.

Kind regards,
Ravenna.

Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties.

St.Denis · 12-01-2021, 08:17 PM,

Money taken, added to Tracker.

Good luck

'I would like to be half as clever as some people like to believe they are'
Life is full of disappointments, it is how we handle them that helps to define us, as a person

Megaera · 12-01-2021, 09:07 PM,

Well since I was asked to give my personal opinion on this faction, I will give my honest opinion on it and I wont sugarcoat anything.
Note that I didn't have much interaction with them yet, so this may change in the future.

To start with, I highly doubt this faction has 45 'main members' and this is excluding the recruits. I am on the DTR channel myself and they basicly hand out the 'potential recruit' status to whoever pops in there unless they state otherwise (I actually confirmed this by asking someone who had that rank, he claimed he never requested it). Or part of the members you claim to have aren't on the discord channel.
95% of them are people I have never seen before.
This is both good and bad. Good because of having new blood added to this game. Bad because I see no one who has long time experience with the lore. Like the leader had no idea what Corsair and GC relations were. This is concerning to me when a faction wants official status without knowing the basic lore of the faction through and through, especially as official factions are supposed to be the faction representatives. What I have seen of DTR is that it is comprised almost exclusively of new people.

The members I have interacted with are friendly and good sports. This is a plus.

I also took a quick look at the wiki page. It has been done before, but it is always problematic when people build a faction focussed on one person. in this case Ravenna. They never have much longlivity as it relies too much on the presence of that one person. Meaning that if ravenna should take a break or quit, the entire faction will plummet and die. Officialdom isnt easy and if you go this route you will be in for the long run. Its an added risk.

Code:
- Updating and rebuilding the wiki space, which seems like an under-utilized tool that's not up-to-date or accurate.

I really do hope you consult others before you go and change stuff on the wiki page. There are other corsair factions than DTR.

Code:
- Proven history of leadership that accommodates others and treats everyone with respect.

Can't really comment on this. As I barely know who you are. So proven leadership isn't really a thing yet. To many people here I am considdered new and I have been here for 4 years now. So there really isn't a history to speak off yet. The time scale on this game is massive. Some have been playing for 14 years. Don't get disillusioned, you need to start somewhere. But proving yourself to this community is challenging.

My conclusion is that it is fine as a indie faction, but it is certainly not ready for officialdom. Maybe in time they are, but right now they should get familiar with the game more. Adding to this is that I commend the initiative to draw in new players.

Matriarch Of the Gen'an Chrysanthemums - Ishikawa Aya
Gen'an Cell Information - Recruitment - Communications Network

Megaera - Ishikawa Masako
Feedback - Data Storage - Birth of a goddess

Commandantt · 12-01-2021, 09:41 PM,

An interesting faction that revives Corsairs activity.

But since we all live in a disco swamp we all know how activity changes in different regions.
So even there will be 20 active members they gonna overpower everything in their zoi. 45 members? they can eat House alive

I can wish them only good luck.

Information • Recruitment • Flight Logs • Bounty Board • Mission Board • Ageira NeuralNet

Major. · 12-01-2021, 09:43 PM,

The good people decided to become a Outcast, everyone else who was left, joined the Corsairs.

Good luck.

jesus · 12-01-2021, 09:57 PM,

all i see is 3-4 actives players with decent roleplay. others are only filling shoes and use Sad

in roleplay (when they actually do RP) while have 0 clues of what going on.... IMO do a cleanup before even concidering being a real faction.

The man. The Legend

Alexander Arnold · (This post was last modified: 12-01-2021, 10:44 PM by Alexander Arnold.)

On behalf of Rheinland MIlitary and [RM], I wish you the best of luck.

(12-01-2021, 09:41 PM)Gregor Hansen Wrote: An interesting faction that revives Corsairs activity.

But since we all live in a disco swamp we all know how activity changes in different regions.
So even there will be 20 active members they gonna overpower everything in their zoi. 45 members? they can eat House alive

I can wish them only good luck.

I will tell you my story. I came to Rheinland to a struggling house and faction. I expected to be drawing blood from a stone and having to create immense efforts in trying to get people in the faction things to do like happens in other houses. DTR has changed all that. Without you and the back and forths where we trade kills, wins and losses our job would be very difficult. Your faction has to a large extent healed the in the past broken sportsmanship of the house and almost single handedly brought frequent PvP back to Rheinland lawfuls.

Rheinland and [RM] owe you a lot.

Will you get Officialdom?
Now - to officialdom application and being an "indie" faction. You have what others do not. You ask, make mistakes, ask more and then immediately and politely take feedback on board, listen and make changes.

To explain to admins that will make this decision how you operate. Multiple people from DTR, by no means just the leader(I know of 3 separate ones alone) talk to their in-rp mortal enemies, even those that were killing them a lot in-game, join their discords, use PMs, ask how fights went and what to improve. Any issues that happen, and as they keep learning there have been a decent number, they ask for details, what to improve and next time you can clearly tell they tried to iron them out in the faction. I will disagree that you aren't ready to go to for officialdom.

You are not ready NOW, no, but you have process in place to get there very very smoothly by the time the 3 months are over when the vote opens. Keep asking for feedback, keep being oorp friendly to people you play fight and take feedback on board and you will become official.

Your approach is revolutionary and has the chance to change entire Discovery Freelancer culture - you have taken it even a step further from HS> and I sincerely hope you spread it around the game.

What will get you to officialdom/what I suggest to work on in next 3 months
1) A couple RP Oriented chatterboxes
You do not need to all fire a milion words per minute, no. But I would recommend at least the High Command getting into the habit of roleplaying more in-game before fights. Ask questions, even of your enemies, make long proclamations - at least your leaders can change the perception that you just jump into fights with little roleplay. All you need is one or two people in a group and rest writing good thought out preset messages and adding small snipets to the leaders' RP and you will largely shake the image of being "NPCs".

2) Forum presence
People like to see the common cliches that make you seem more "official"
I'd expand your infopage on forums. You can add the common tropes - just look around other factions. Things like diplomacy with graphical bars on forums, list of vital bases with images etc. They will complement your wiki entry which is very very good. Forum can be more of a list form and wiki written details.

I would also strongly suggest you teach and encourage your members to frequently write message dumps. It's just cool if someone roleplays or RPs with your faction to then appear in your internal reports. The "Ma I'm on TV" effect that makes people want to interact with you, and also lets us know your characters.

I loved DTR-Nox's Forum teasing with one of our [RM] pilots and then a friendly duel in actual game Smile

Your players have stories to tell, and to have a better chance at becoming official you should give the service to others to be able to find out about them, bring activity to forum as well as the game

3) Events + added regions
You have done very well with organising the latest event of OC/Core vs Sairs/Order event. I think it's your first one and think you should be going, learn from how it goes. Very easy way to "manipulate" staff and people to like you is to be the leader in activity and creativity - bring events to forgotten and under played regions, come up with cool ideas that make people to log into the actual game, it will go a long way and boost your chances greatly. It also takes high amounts of effort and frustrations that often mostly people outside of your faction benefit from it, but will go a long way to be a deservedly official faction.

Rheinland Militär Recruitment - Apply now!

Oprixy · (This post was last modified: 12-01-2021, 10:46 PM by Oprixy.)

Playing with this group is a treat, very friendly and not scared to ask questions. There are a few things that other people have mentioned that does need to be worked on but it's not all that much so not going to re go over all that.
Flying with these guys/girls is always fun.

Corile · 12-01-2021, 11:48 PM,

I agree with most of what Megaera said before. To be honest I haven't had extensive experience with your players in game but from what I experienced back in October (replying to an iRP local chat with oorp pm) it is clear you are very new.

Spoiler

It doesn't seem to me like you particularly know much about Discovery. You don't seem know much about the lore. You don't appear to know anything about the Corsairs. Your initial faction thread seems only to confirm it. It shows, from both the lore page to things like your attempts to actually use the wiki (nobody in $currentyear cares about the wiki). There are overinflated claims in your request ("have organised an event" that's not yet happened, "proven leadership" that has only joined a few weeks ago, numbers that don't sound particularly right). Your goals are not precise.

I'm just honestly not sure if this is ever going to get off the ground with quality required to justify it being official. You just give off the vibe that you are a group of players who want to play a video game together. That's not a bad thing.

But cobbling together a faction with quite basic tropes thrown into the lore and requesting officialdom straight away ain't the way to do it. Speaking from hard hearned personal experience here.

Reflections on the Revolution in Gallia
Custodi // High City of Heraklion // The Cult of Archangels
Log Filter // Post Creator // Manhattan

Ravenna Nagash · 12-02-2021, 12:22 AM,

Thank you all for the first feedbacks, they are much appreciated. A lot of things to discuss:

(12-01-2021, 09:07 PM)Megaera Wrote: Well since I was asked to give my personal opinion on this faction, I will give my honest opinion on it and I wont sugarcoat anything.

Thanks, this is generally the road that leads to improvement.

(12-01-2021, 09:07 PM)Megaera Wrote: To start with, I highly doubt this faction has 45 'main members' and this is excluding the recruits.

This number comes from the number of people that have achieved the rank of Vanguard on our discord server. To achieve that rank, a recruit must:

1) Do at least 3 activities with a core member of the group. (Missions, Trading, Raiding, BZ, etc.)
2) Have donated 50 million to our bank.
3) Preferably committed a ship to our fleet with 1 military mission on it, minimum.
4) Have a core member vouch for them.

Every single person that has achieved that rank has accomplished the above. This naturally does not account for activity which factors in time zones, RL responsibilities, or players choosing to play other factions than our own (which I do not discourage). To correlate these numbers to our activity, we have 36d 17:22:21 of activity for the past 3 months, which is 2nd place out of all tagged factions. It's worth mentioning that we spend a lot of time on untagged ships.

(12-01-2021, 09:07 PM)Megaera Wrote: I am on the DTR channel myself and they basicly hand out the 'potential recruit' status to whoever pops in there unless they state otherwise (I actually confirmed this by asking someone who had that rank, he claimed he never requested it).

We only apply the ''potential recruit'' role to people that have requested to join us. To do anything further, they have to pass the aforementioned requirements. Anyone else goes into an assorted category and we have no people on our Discord with no role - honestly because I have an OCD about data categorization. If by some accident, the role was assigned by mistake, I am happy to remove the role of recruit from the person that you've talked to. Have them reach out to me and I will fix it tomorrow. Or they can reach out to me.

(12-01-2021, 09:07 PM)Megaera Wrote: 95% of them are people I have never seen before.

That percentage is probably very high but you are correct that a lot of us are new, that's true.

(12-01-2021, 09:07 PM)Megaera Wrote: Like the leader had no idea what Corsair and GC relations were.

I think you misunderstood me when I approached you - I wanted to establish a relationship between us as people and our groups in terms of doing things together - events, fights, feedback, etc. And I wanted to understand more nuances about your group. I am fully aware that GC are hostile to Corsairs. We did attack you when you sieged that base if you recall. I will be honest though, I don't know every detail about every faction out there. But generally these things can be learned fairly quickly. I also establish similar relationships with every leader that we encounter as a base-line. It's good to avoid drama and misunderstandings.

(12-01-2021, 09:07 PM)Megaera Wrote: They never have much longlivity as it relies too much on the presence of that one person. Meaning that if ravenna should take a break or quit, the entire faction will plummet and die. Officialdom isnt easy and if you go this route you will be in for the long run. Its an added risk.

I agree with this. Although, I am in it for the long haul as I like the game, I've already taken steps in this direction. More to follow.

(12-01-2021, 09:07 PM)Megaera Wrote: I really do hope you consult others before you go and change stuff on the wiki page. There are other corsair factions than DTR.

We were referring more to the general wiki - as in resources, ship locations, things that players actually need to look up like information. I would not touch another player faction's wiki page, period. If something needs to be changed that relates to other groups, things should be discussed, as in other wiki communities that I am a part of.

(12-01-2021, 09:07 PM)Megaera Wrote: To many people here I am considdered new and I have been here for 4 years now. So there really isn't a history to speak off yet. The time scale on this game is massive. Some have been playing for 14 years. Don't get disillusioned, you need to start somewhere. But proving yourself to this community is challenging.

I was referring to specific situations with some of our enemies where I gave my word on specific actions and I've delivered. Hopefully these people will provide this feedback and share my sentiment. While I appreciate your point, legacy and history is an important thing that I can respect - 4 years is a bit unrealistic, don't you think? Especially on a game with extremely low population and with a very dangerously low influx of new players. The cost-benefit analysis just isn't there, from an analytical point of view.

Also proving yourself is a two-way street and respect comes from both sides. The old timers have a responsibility to the newer community - otherwise you would be playing with the same 20 people, don't you think?

I appreciate your feedback and thank you for the honest response. We'll work on the points that you've raised.

(12-01-2021, 09:41 PM)Gregor Hansen Wrote: So even there will be 20 active members they gonna overpower everything in their zoi. 45 members? they can eat House alive

Don't worry, different time zones are a thing for us as well. Thank you for your message.

(12-01-2021, 09:43 PM)Major. Wrote: The good people decided to become a Outcast, everyone else who was left, joined the Corsairs.

Good luck.

Thank you for your feedback.

(12-01-2021, 09:57 PM)jesus Wrote: all i see is 3-4 actives players with decent roleplay. others are only filling shoes and use in roleplay (when they actually do RP) while have 0 clues of what going on.... IMO do a cleanup before even concidering being a real faction.

I disagree. New players need to be given a chance and to be taught. I am not going to do a clean-up because that's not the kind of person I am and the kind of integrity I have. And if that was a condition to be an official group, I would not apply at all and we can be rejected and I am fine with that.

Thank you though for taking the time to write in this thread.

(12-01-2021, 10:30 PM)Alexander Arnold Wrote: 1) A couple RP Oriented chatterboxes

Thank you first of all for all the kind words. I agree with your point very strongly. We already had a bit of a problem because we attacked in a situation without RP-ing enough. I've spoken with all my members on this and to provide sufficient roleplay. Your feedback is appreciated, we'll try to incorporate this suggestion in our overall battles.

(12-01-2021, 10:30 PM)Alexander Arnold Wrote: 2) Forum presence

To be perfectly honest, I dislike forums. Having said that, it's just the way things in Disco work and I've accepted that. We've started to roleplay on the forum and I've updated all our threads to accommodate for that model including a message dump thread and updated info/recruitment page. I absolutely agree - visuals and images are much needed. I'll definitely improve our info page further. I am happy you liked the wiki page. You should see improvements in this area quite soon.

(12-01-2021, 10:30 PM)Alexander Arnold Wrote: 3) Events + added regions

Absolutely agree. It's indeed our first event - quite excited for it and how it plays out. I've already approached other leaders of enemy factions for more events between us - we will likely plan another one beyond the one mentioned in December and more to come.

(12-01-2021, 10:44 PM)Oprixy Wrote: Playing with this group is a treat, very friendly and not scared to ask questions.

Thank you for taking the time and the kind words.

Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties.

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