Lawful IDs rework proposal

[Shimamori]

As I said, there's already no incentive for police to log, because nobody logs them. As such, nobody would actually miss police cruisers, because none exist as-is.

That is hardly an argument to bring in more people to play, even if cruisers are an incentive to but a few people.

If you're feeling up for it, then, start a police faction and try to get enthusiasm for it going. Out of curiosity, do you think most of your membership would be flying cruisers?

I already lead a small RP-oriented lawful faction with options to act in a similar to police way but with broader RP perspectives (because I am into political RP that hardly makes sense as a pure police faction). Two of our small group fly cruisers, which is half.

I think Kahlmera captured it well: police RP is simply not the fad now. This is on top of the ID being not top-notch and more restrictive compared to navy. Police factions can exist if people desire to play the police. But when there are so many better options playing a shady corpo or sleazy smuggler for RP, or simply slap a well-kitted navy big chink for PvP, why even bother with seemingly boring police?

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[Omi]

I wonder who these cliques that never interact with outsiders are?

I couldn't say. That would be trial by forum, wouldn't it? I don't want to play the passive-aggression game and dance around it, but I also don't really want to kick up a potential storm and point any fingers directly. You'll just have to settle for me saying that you and I both know they exist, and I think trying to insinuate that they don't is a bad way to try and deny it.

Anyway, as far as the main point of the thread goes; to put it bluntly, there aren't enough players left anymore to justify having three lawful factions per House anymore, I'd say. For police factions it's especially brutal, since from a PvP perspective they don't offer anything unique and the roleplay angle is quite niche compared to being some kind of gigakiller protagonist type flying around an epic Navy dreadnought doing Big Amazing Protagonist things. That's assuming anyone actually logs in with an eye towards roleplay these days rather than just looking to shoot each other, but even if that's all you want you have more ZoI and more ship/tech choice with the house Navy IDs.

Splitting lawful ID permissions further won't actually improve server gameplay. You'll just have smugglers sailing through lanes uncontested since I'd hazard the bulk of the playerbase doesn't really consider law enforcement alone to be interesting enough to justify logging on for -- I can understand getting excited for a fun, back-and-forth roleplay session or any kind of PvP, but is there really much to be gained from pulling over and fining a 5k Cardi smuggler who barely even roleplays? Maybe if you do it in a group, sure, but then you're really just logging for the internal roleplay, I hope. Anything beyond that is window dressing, at least to my mind. Maybe there are some people out there who really get a thrill out of policing for the sake of policing.

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[Sombs]

Always happy to see that people still complain about being left out from the fun of others. Very problematic, these people who play differently, indeed.

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[Omi]

If you ever grow the balls to talk to me face-to-face and actually address what I'm saying instead of taking coy little potshots, feel free. You know where to find me, both on the forums and on Discord. I can't pretend to know why I still have a rent-free apartment inside your head, though. Maybe it's because the truth hasn't stopped stinging no matter how many times you read it?

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[Sombs]

Omi, you are undesirable. It is funny to see how that gets you mad over and over again. People avoid you ingame, and you get angry when you get faced with the fact that people block you. That's very much the point you are getting angry about: People can play the game without the requirement to entertain you or anyone else - they can just play the game the way they like. They don't need to be accessible to you. They don't need to be available for PvP, they don't need to generate RP for anyone else. It's a game, people play to have fun. You've been crying for years about people avoiding you, as have others. Maybe, just maybe, consider why people avoid you in first place. What could possibly make you so undesirable? Maybe it's your appearance ingame? Maybe your appearance on the forum? Maybe people don't appreciate your angry pink walls of text from the past? Maybe people don't desire to waste their time with your extremely passive-aggressive posts?

You can't change the fact that people will avoid you if they want to. You can have the same approach as some of the developers and try to desperately shrink the map size so people are forced to move through certain areas, but in the end, those cliques that you are so mad about will either go off-plane, use the player map to avoid you, move their roleplay to other platforms than the game itself or simply dock at a station and not undock. You are not entitled to have other people entertain you. In fact, responding to your over-the-top aggressive reaction to my little remark literally proves my point: You still think like that, and you are still mad at me. One would have assumed that after so many years, you'd have grown up to be a better sports, but I guess some people never change.

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[Lusitano]

this is derailing a lot from the original intent!! i propose a creation special section where players can "wash their dirty clothes" like it is said in my country ... well it loses a bit in translation ... and this way the original intent of the post can be discuss without these unnecessary diversions!!

[Darius]

No, this supposed derailing is exactly a mirror for how the mod currently is. People are trying to find solutions and others slam into talks defending age-old behavior that has been proven as nothing more than a liability to the server.

It's a pity, but what can you do.

[Omi]

Omi, you are undesirable. It is funny to see how that gets you mad over and over again. People avoid you ingame, and you get angry when you get faced with the fact that people block you. That's very much the point you are getting angry about: People can play the game without the requirement to entertain you or anyone else - they can just play the game the way they like. They don't need to be accessible to you. They don't need to be available for PvP, they don't need to generate RP for anyone else. It's a game, people play to have fun. You've been crying for years about people avoiding you, as have others. Maybe, just maybe, consider why people avoid you in first place. What could possibly make you so undesirable? Maybe it's your appearance ingame? Maybe your appearance on the forum? Maybe people don't appreciate your angry pink walls of text from the past? Maybe people don't desire to waste their time with your extremely passive-aggressive posts?

You can't change the fact that people will avoid you if they want to. You can have the same approach as some of the developers and try to desperately shrink the map size so people are forced to move through certain areas, but in the end, those cliques that you are so mad about will either go off-plane, use the player map to avoid you, move their roleplay to other platforms than the game itself or simply dock at a station and not undock. You are not entitled to have other people entertain you. In fact, responding to your over-the-top aggressive reaction to my little remark literally proves my point: You still think like that, and you are still mad at me. One would have assumed that after so many years, you'd have grown up to be a better sports, but I guess some people never change.

I'm sorry you don't agree with the changes the development team are planning because they'll interfere with your preferred playstyle of ignoring -- or trying to ignore, at least -- anyone you haven't specifically and extensively vetted to be be ""worth"" interacting with. That's not even entirely passive-aggressive; I do actually feel bad for you, because I think it's a sad way to play the game, and I feel even worse that that same selfish, individualistic attitude is so prevalent in the mod today. I know you don't think I'm being sincere, but that really is how it is. I think if you had actually took the average player into consideration for once, rather than focusing on maximising your own enjoyment and that of your handpicked friend group, you'd have benefited from it. The only point I will slightly budge on, because someone did actually approach me on Discord about it, is that I'm not entirely justified in tarring a broad stroke of the server with that same brush anymore. You, though, are a particular enigma with a particular problem that I'm not even remotely qualified to diagnose.

The only thing that actually upsets me is having to deal with the genuine confusion at having you pop out of the woodwork, again, to fire a shot at me because you've still got a stick jammed up your ass about me in particular, for some reason or another, after God knows how many years. One look around at how the Disco forums in particular operate is enough to tell me that there's not much point in complaining about it, though, because that's basically just the MO around here, right? Still, you're welcome to keep engaging with me in bad faith, as you have for literal years now, if you want. You're right in that I can't actually control how you go about your life, whether it's in Discovery or out of it! I don't have to defend myself to you or anyone else because I think anyone reading this exchange has either already decided which 'side' of this debate they're on, or is level-headed enough to make up their minds by themselves. I do think it's fine to call you out on your BS, though, because I know from experience you get particularly irritated when forced to confront the consequences of your actions.

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[Darius]

You're posting walls of text against one of the main individuals who pushed for the canonization of the Vagrants, maybe just ease up a wee bit and let fate do its thing.

[Jeuge]

Discovery