moved the BHG stuff into a new thread

[Athenian]

Agmen of Eladesor - You represent the S/D , perhaps the only (so far) BHG faction that I like. Act aproprietly and don't start flames. Because this threat needs only a little of them to get locked.

Let's keep this matter civil.

Now , there is actually a very good reason for the removal of the GS on the normal BHG ID. It's simple , you ( mostly indi BH ) have shown that you are not capable in handling that ship. You cannot handle the responsibility of a ship that is far better then most others. Since you cannot handle the ship it has been removed from you. Simple as that.

Aslong as there is no faction representing the BHG who will step up , with an iron fist if you must , and demand RP , responcibility and respect for other players , that will remain.

Thank you for bringing that up , Jinx.

Actually , as strange as it may seem to most. I think that this would actually aid the Order in matters of RP ( please don't quote me on that later ... ). Having more activity in the Omicrons will encrease the Order players activity , it will also encrease the Zoners activity in those systems , who will probably wish to observe if the Freeport rules are folowed by both parties.

The large increase of the Order's ships will provide them with enough power to confront the Hunter threat , will the ocassional assist from the Corsairs.

Aslong as that ID ( BHGC ID ) is handled with care and the ships it alows are handled with the apropriete role play and responcibility, I doubt there will be any problems.

Agmen had to go so I'm sure he won't mind me answering for him on that one.

Agmen wasn't speaking on behalf of the faction but I thought what he said was to the point, if perhaps a little direct. We have put a lot of work into building something and these anti BHG remarks can seem a little unbalanced, considering we ve been on the receiving end of a lot of negative attention from individuals who use their pirate ships without any regard for the opposition too. Agmen (in his corsair character) too has experienced undocking and finding a BHG BC sitting in orbit ganking all and sundry. Thing is, we (generally) try to not complain when things don't go our way. Well, not here on the forums anyway.

Being a pirate character myself as well, I sympathise fully with those who are having an unpleasant time dealing these BHG idiots. The new guys in New Berlin (you know who you are) and their erstwhile robotic buddies (the gunship quadruplets) are two cases in point that come to mind immediately. So yes, I accept that these people are making it not fun for you.

People are already complaining about BHG ships sitting in Gamma; the Core id is going to mean more of the same. Plus, we're not making all these changes to keep the Order faction alive, are we? Surely that's for Order players and leaders to work on.

But the debate so far has been very constructive in my eyes, and some of the suggestions are good. Massaging these ideas into something tangible will take time.

---

Former member of "the most paranoid group of people in the community"
Discovery Community Forum Rules

[Dra1003]

Ok thats fine jinx yes i agree letting the bhg use the gs for bounty hunting and the orca for core operations only.

Sorry forgot about the cat we dont want any bomber being spammed now do we? heh

---

Ive had enough of disco for now. I might be back at the next mod release.

The Master of all things cyborg

Bio Extensive Research

[Emon]

I think a reason for not allowing the Bounty Hunters to use gunships is the fear that bounty hunters will use ONLY gunships if they are permitted. Whether that would happen or not is up for debate, but it could have influenced the decision.

RP Wise it would make sense for the guild to operate their older gunships in House territories(The Bounty Hunter Gunship, not the Orca). RP Explanation? As Orcas are produced to participate on the front lines of the war with the order, the outdated gunships are reassigned for bounty hunting purposes, perhaps sold at reduced prices to individual bounty hunters or groups. RP Problem solved.

Do I particularly want to see hordes of gunboats flying around? Not really. I pirate in a light fighter, unless I have an obscene amount of free time on my hands, there's pretty much no way i could take down a gunship, assuming I could even survive long enough. But, i'll concede that it does make RP sense for the occasional gunship to be available.

I would like to see more bounty hunters in fighters though.


Disclaimer: I realize its not only bounty hunters that are the problem, however this thread is specifically about bounty hunters, so please don't take it as undue criticism. I'll concede that the pirate factions do occasionally put more caps in space than is needed, but most of the time I see pirates operating fighter class vessels. Your experiences may vary of course.

Edited for gratuitous use of the word 'particularly'

[NonSequitor]

the BHG GS ( the new one ) is made to hunt fighters and bombers. - it can NOT solo even an NPC cruiser anymore ( for various reasons soon to be discovered ) - its a PURE anti fighter ship now.

so - i d leave the GS to the bounty hunting and the orca with the anti-cap FG ( which is the more advanced ship anyway ) to the core.... that is a suggestion.

This is all well and good - until you run into 1 or more pirate gunboats with your very balanced gunship. You'll need bomber backup, which isn't always readily available. A stock Orca would have a better chance of surviving that encounter alone, or at least until backup arrives.

[Zero755]

I think Jinx's idea is a great one, the GS for actual Hunting, and the Orca for Cap killing. Emon you said that would only make the GS more popular, so be it. I would rather deal with a spammed GS than a spammed BC. The GS isnt going to be that hard to take out if I have read between the lines correctly. A group of 3+ fighters or 2+ bombers should have no problem with it. I bet a skilled bomber pilot might even be able to solo it. I dunno, Im not 100% sure. Point being, it is a good compromise. The Hunters get their GS and everyone else dosent get to see BHG BC spammage.

---

[Athenian]

I think Jinx's idea is a great one, the GS for actual Hunting, and the Orca for Cap killing. Emon you said that would only make the GS more popular, so be it. I would rather deal with a spammed GS than a spammed BC. The GS isnt going to be that hard to take out if I have read between the lines correctly. A group of 3+ fighters or 2+ bombers should have no problem with it. I bet a skilled bomber pilot might even be able to solo it. I dunno, Im not 100% sure. Point being, it is a good compromise. The Hunters get their GS and everyone else dosent get to see BHG BC spammage.

So what makes this change acceptable is the fact that it would be easy to take out? Is that a harvester "going postal" message in your sig? And an Outcast dreadnought? Are you really that persecuted by the BHG?

And to be fair, this isn't so much about us "getting our GS" and compromise so much as being about a few of us who care making sure we don't end up collecting bounties using piranhas and our powers of persuasion.

---

Former member of "the most paranoid group of people in the community"
Discovery Community Forum Rules

[Zero755]

Look, Im not complaining, you can ask scorn, we have little problems dealing with BC's. A couple gunboats, maybe a bomber, and its meat. Hell I'm even fine the whole registration thing, but someone has to step up and make people register. The problem I have is not with the ships, its with the pilots. And yes some (And by some I mean few) Hunters can pilot caps with amazing RP, and they sholudnt have a problem keeping theirs, I get pissed at the idiots that just fly around going "lulz noob i pwnzorz u" When we hear about that, your damn right the Harvies go postal. But we'll only go Postal IF it is within our Area of Operation, or if a friendly is calling for assistance. This has nothing to do with pwnzoring the hunters. We can already do that, just as they can to us. All depends on how many ppl you have on each side at any given time. (EDITED OUT. Issue was dealt with via PM)

FYI that is an Outcast Dessie, not a Dread.

---

[Athenian]

Fair point. (I meant Dessie too, my mistake.)

I've already made my suggestions, here and in the id thread. What I got from your post was the implication that what you found an acceptable compromise was the fact that we would now be flying ships that you could deal with easily. To be honest I couldn't give a fiddlers curse what restrictions are put in place so long as all players get parity of treatment (players, not factions, I said) and so long as these changes are brought about to deal with real problems rather than the complaints of a handful of people who are a little louder on the forums than others.

But apologies if my response was a little personal. I was a little off there.

---

Former member of "the most paranoid group of people in the community"
Discovery Community Forum Rules

[SigCorps]

So how is restricting ships going to make the problem people play any better? It's not. To stick with the lore of FL, yes keep the cruisers and up in the Core and they stay out in the Omicrons. Give them the Orca too. But yes sometimes the regulare BHG would use a GB.

As for everyone piloting GB's now...it does not happen now. I would bet that it's onyl a small percentage that do. Heck in S/D out of all our memebers we only have 3 BG's and they only come out for RP events. So there are a bunch of BHG folks who do not fly GB's all the time. If you make the ships to hard to get..then the folks who are the issue will just find the next set of ships to abuse. You do not solve anything.

I do not agree with a ship registration. I think that it's a poor tool for one part of a faction to dictate terms to the rest. If an Indie steps outa line then yuo deal with it in RP. I just do not feel right telling someone that they have to play this game my way. Thats just not fair.

As for Server police. That to me sound to crazy. Lets not add to the bureaucracy. The Admins do a dang fine job. This issue can be solved by us the players.

---

Formerly Sam Nichols, creator of OSI

[Zero755]

So it brings us back to my first suggestion, Let the indies keep the GB/GS and limit the caps to the new license.

---