Capital Ship Missiles

[Igiss]

Yes, there's a line in the definition of any weapon 'uses_ammo = yes (or no)' so you start from there.

Not as easy as you might think.

Amount of ammo in Freelancer is set by ONE constant that determines max ammo for all ships and all weapons (missiles, mines, CDs, CMs) at once. Right now this constant is 70. Nightfall wants this to be lowered; I don't think I'm going to change it. I admit that 70 is too much for powerful missiles and torpedoes, but it isn't much for CMs and less powerful weaponry.

Also take into account that 70 is maximum for all ammo for one weapon type. This makes your idea about ammo for capship missiles absolutely impossible to implement. If max ammo will be upped to 100 or 200, then fighters will get too powerful, and capital ships still won't get enough. If max ammo is 70, ship with 5 missile turrets (not too much, for a battleship at least) will be able to fire 14 shots with its missiles. Then return to base, resupply - top-level fighter missiles cost 7 thousand, so if battleship missiles will cost, say, 20 thousand, resupply will cost 1,5 million - and fire the next 14 shots. For me this sounds ridiculous.

Missiles will be changed, surely. But no ammo. They'll have 30% higher refire (1.5 > 2.0) and significantly increased energy requirements. As for the damage, I didn't make a final decision on that.

Gunboats will not be nerfed in any way, but maneuverability will be reduced. Miner... well, I thought it would be interesting to have a transport capable of equipping gunboat turrets, but since it gets abused, level 8 turret slots will be removed from that ship.

[BestFlyerHere]

Oh my God! I come back to Discovery and see this!!! Guys, we are making such a big deal about a SMALL ISSUE!!! Just listen to what Igiss says we're gonna do.

I don't care what happens, but this seems like a big chance for a flamefest. A WHAT???? FLAMEFEST!!!!!!!!!!

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I am a long-absent Supreme Commander, Executive Commander, Grand Admiral, Fleet Admiral, and Captain in the mighty Hellfire Legion. I have returned, and am on an urgent mission from Drake Thastus to return the Legion to its former glory, and to claim the galaxy for its own. Only then will I be able to rest.


RP Story (Still deciding whether or not to finish)

http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?sh...=5439&st=20

[Nightfall]

Not as easy as you might think.

Amount of ammo in Freelancer is set by ONE constant that determines max ammo for all ships and all weapons (missiles, mines, CDs, CMs) at once. Right now this constant is 70. Nightfall wants this to be lowered; I don't think I'm going to change it. I admit that 70 is too much for powerful missiles and torpedoes, but it isn't much for CMs and less powerful weaponry.

Also take into account that 70 is maximum for all ammo for one weapon type. This makes your idea about ammo for capship missiles absolutely impossible to implement. If max ammo will be upped to 100 or 200, then fighters will get too powerful, and capital ships still won't get enough. If max ammo is 70, ship with 5 missile turrets (not too much, for a battleship at least) will be able to fire 14 shots with its missiles. Then return to base, resupply - top-level fighter missiles cost 7 thousand, so if battleship missiles will cost, say, 20 thousand, resupply will cost 1,5 million - and fire the next 14 shots. For me this sounds ridiculous.

Missiles will be changed, surely. But no ammo. They'll have 30% higher refire (1.5 > 2.0) and significantly increased energy requirements. As for the damage, I didn't make a final decision on that.

Gunboats will not be nerfed in any way, but maneuverability will be reduced. Miner... well, I thought it would be interesting to have a transport capable of equipping gunboat turrets, but since it gets abused, level 8 turret slots will be removed from that ship.

Good I got an error while posting so I saw your post.

Yes, I realized the problem so I was thinking:

I was typing the following:

Yes, missle launchers without ammo is a loop hole. And missles can be seen as a loophole because they negate evasive manuevers and aiming. Another loophole is how a ship as small as a fighter can possibly hold 70 missles (unguided rockets are small enough for that, but missles are miniature space crafts in and of themselves and are much larger. A fighter carrying between 5 and 10 missles is more likely to me.)

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The "because I can" people are severly outnumbered now, and even some of them are starting to hear and believe the RP gospel.

In fact, I thank the 'because I can' people, they help find the bugs. I wish there would be less flames though. I think the Discovery community is not the everyday PvP community you find on most other FL servers, we are moving a different way. I wouldn't be so vehemently supporting that way if I didn't think it's special.

Limiting the ammo that certain ships can carry seems to be the answer, but I think it's a constant for all ships (defined in constants.ini). On the other hand, there might be a way around the ammo constant - maybe if the ammo took up cargo space... in that case, it would depend on the ship's cargo capacity how many it can carry... but then again, we would be restricting the cargo space on the ships and they won't be able to carry loot which, true, would add to the realism of the fighters that wouldn't be carrying much loot anyway...

continued below...

i say mcneos proposal wa good but i think that fighters should only be able to carry 2 torps and 8 missles like todays fighters can

As I said, it would be possible if the ammo took up cargo space, you would be able to carry as much as your cargo hold size on the other hand, two torps wouldn't be able to do much damage to any capship the way they are set up now, arises the question of torp damage... needs some thinking on it.

So, in general, the constant in the ini could be upped to something like 200 or more having various ammo take various amount of cargo space... just an idea but it still may have the cost problem, not sure.

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If the stars should appear one night in a thousand years, how would men believe and adore and preserve for many generations the remembrance of the city of God? - from 'Nightfall' by I. Asimov
The Outcasts consider Siniestre Nube a sacred place for several reasons. Early explorers discovered a jumphole within the depths of the cloud that leads to a strange world of ringed stars and strange craft. All ships in the burrial ground are placed facing that hole to honor the Alien Spirits. - An Outcast rumor

[fwolf]

i say mcneos proposal wa good but i think that fighters should only be able to carry 2 torps and 8 missles like todays fighters can

Why like today's fighters? Freelancer happens in the 30th century! And of course things will be highly miniaturized by then. I think the missiles used in Freelancer can be hold with one hand, or perhaps two hands, but no more big than that.

[Dab]

I like the turret taking space idea. That would make turret number dependent on cargo space for the missiles, but still give unlimited missiles for the turrets you DO have equipped. Plus the higher energy requirement. This should fix alot of what we are getting.

Also Igiss, the GB Forward guns are the only other thing needing downgrading. My GB takes a BS shield down faster than my bomber with 4x Coladas, 2x Tizonas. I'd say a 10-15% downgrade would be good. Its meant to be support for BS in taking down fighters, not a mini-liberty cruiser.

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[Igiss]

Cargo space is not a solution. Ammo for equipped weapons doesn't take up cargo space (hardcoded). Sorry, but the idea of ammo for capship weapons should be dropped. I will seek for other ways to solve this.

Equipped weapons also don't take cargo space. Avoid using cargo for solving balance issues... cargo is cargo, only internal equipment occupies space when equipped - armor upgrades, scanners and tractors. Nothing else.

[Nadir]

<strike>There is such a thing as over-government. If something is too powerful, reduce the power. The idea of imposing mysterious supernatural limitations hardly helps RP does it?</strike>

Edit: that's in reference to the first post which is way old news. Sorry, tired at the time. *slaps self about the head with a wet fish*

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ex

[Nadir]

Yeah jack the price up but strengthen the caps make them way more powerful. But throw in a server wipe and boom everything is balanced (Hey I actually support the notion for a server wipe as of now...things have gotten too out of hand with the crap I had to deal with today.)

BS should be able to PWN the following, Cruiser/Gunboat/Destroyer/Fighter.

Cruiser should be able to PWN the following,
Gunboat/Destroyer/fighter

Destroyer should be able to PWN the following,
Gunboat/Fighter

Gunboat should be able to PWN the following
Fighter
Fighter should be able to fight the following

Fighter's should be able to fight a gunboat back or a destroyer or light cruiser back in groups of 2-3. Yeah a GB should be able to kill a fighter but the fighter should have a chance.

Most of my ships are fighters (17 I think) I want so badly for the fighter to be the boss again....

<strike>
I have JUST got a bare minimum of funds for a Container Transport after too many nights trading a Large Transport... and the KNF, each and every one of the KNT traders, have spent hundreds of hours just doing INCREDIBLY boring trade runs in order further our abilities against increasing outlaw activity (you so-and-so' : you know who you are!!:)). F... Forget server wipes. I will not rejoin this server as head of Kusari Naval Forces if half my play time and efforts for the last three months are for nothing. I think most of the membership of my faction... and every other faction... would be totally peeved at the idea their hard earnt characters were going to be deleted. TankTarget, you will be MY target if you seriously petition a server wipe. Get real - things are pretty well balanced with only a few problems. Downgrade missiles (or ego) if needed. I don't have the patience, stamina or anti-bull-dust powers to survive a wipe back to zero. If that occurs, the KNF will have to find a new leader. That's not a threat trying to get my own way in an argument, that's what will happen because the amount of effort I've put in is not concomitant to the payback, ie ZERO. Please don't go there.


I agree with the one self-named BestFlyerHere, so much fuss over so little.

Oh yes, Harlequinn, I want to have your babies. The laws of nature, Fool, and my partner/grillfiend may have issues with that... (fair enough really) but I'm all in favour of a woman who can talk about missiles in casual conversation:)... (hehe)</strike>

Edit: ignore me: late night, tired, not thinking propperly. Stupid post on my part. Apologies. *continues to bash self with fish*

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ex

[fwolf]

*see the thread burning*

I against any server wipe, and increasing of prices too. In in favor of raising the energy requirement of missiles and reducing its refire rate so that give some time to the fighters to dodge them. And fighter missiles should remain what they are. If you cant dodge them, I'm sorry for you.

*contemplating the flames destroying the last remains of civilization"

Also there are other ways to counter the "capships culture", doing propaganda and...commiting suicide ingame every time you find yourself in a fighter against three gunboats filled with missiles, as a form of protest against the uber pvp whores. I will not give the glory to such players.

*roleplay is a crime, suicide is not*

[Nightfall]

Sorry, we are talking about missiles here, for player wipe information refer to threads like:

Re: Possible player wipe
Player Wipe
Today is the day of the player wipe

3 months? What about 6? or more? we all got through that, you'll see it doesn't hurt.

Make another thread for player wipe if you want to reply, please.

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If the stars should appear one night in a thousand years, how would men believe and adore and preserve for many generations the remembrance of the city of God? - from 'Nightfall' by I. Asimov
The Outcasts consider Siniestre Nube a sacred place for several reasons. Early explorers discovered a jumphole within the depths of the cloud that leads to a strange world of ringed stars and strange craft. All ships in the burrial ground are placed facing that hole to honor the Alien Spirits. - An Outcast rumor