' Wrote:I need 200m to set up a Pilgrim, a Liner. Not everyones ambition is to fly fighters or capital ships for that matter. Also, I'm in an official faction and I don't get anything for free. Also, the point you seem to raise is "Join a faction! That way others can enslave themselves to get YOU what YOU need!". That still hardly solves anything.
I traded on my Junker for a month or so with no real purpose or goal. Once I got fed up I had ~700m in my account. I bought a cap6, BS scanner and cheetah thruster for my Salvager. For the lulz. Problem is now that I have a clear goal I realize just how slow profiteering is. I still have some degree of fun trading ( not as much as back then now with scrap mining nerfed and diplomatic cockups restricting me to only a handful of routes).
The playing field was leveled, yes, at the expense of everyone else. Most routes are equally profitable. Too bad that that equal value is so low.
PS: OLOL I fail at foruming. Gimme a min
Liners are the Battleships of the trade-world. Again, only fair that they cost a fair ammount of time to get hold of. If people have ambitions, they should be prepared to pay for them. At no point did I suggest everyone's ambition was fighting. I simply suggested that players ambitions should be put aside in favour of character development.
As for your comment about factions, it seems a bit laughable to suggest a faction leader is encouraging leaching at his own expense. The money in faction coffers often comes from individuals such as myself who continue to trade for fun, and have no-where else to put the money.
ie. surplus money from traders with a healthy attitude can be given to those who would otherwise be trading simply as a means to buy something else.
To put it simply; if you're new and you want to get stuck in, go and have fun. If you want to fly huge ships, expect that you will have to pay for them, by massive investment of time, or better still, play the game, and progress to bigger ships when the money inevitably piles up.
Oh; and achievements are only as gratifying as the amount of effort put in to achieve them.
' Wrote:you are free to choose any other trade routes that are just as good as your current one with some new RP. which is by the way an achievement of the new economy.
You are also free to trade in window mode while doing other stuff, like any other sane person.
yes! BUT HOW TO DOO IT? I wish i cud haw it in litle window,but its still in full mode(all screen)and i need to push Win buttom to let it down.HOW to do it corectly plz?
' Wrote:Not instant. Instant would be launching with a Rheinland BS equipped with Capital VIII Armour. A faster system.
Anyway, I ignored Carlos, and I apologise for doing that, probably for the best as it is late, and I no doubt will respond at a later time.
Not gives, accommodates. Gives would be launching with a Rheinland BS equipped with Capital VIII Armor. An accommodating system would provide the same with only an annoying specter of investment of time for reward.
At any rate I advocate for all trade run payouts to be <strike>tripled</strike> quadrupled and ship re-sale prices to be exactly the same, if not more, than ship purchase prices.
basically carlos prettied up mine. I'll just say I hoped someone will pick it up but noone did so I'll just make my point bit more directly. Here's the deal people. I have flown here for 3 years and all I see is some people I knew back then that are still equally immature and cannot bother to do anything right but instead are forcing the game to bend their way.
I'm kinda sick of doing anything, so I'll just retire to my terrorist ID and my faction leader chair and pretty much ignore everything since we now finally have GMG / Kusari signing agreement and some mining opportunities organized. That's about it from me.
I just hope routes stay as they are, alot of them are in roleplay. Alot of them are done nicely, even Xenos have a place to unload most of things they pirate. if you want to pirate gold you have to contact other players or spend cash on your own trading ship to carry it like that.
i find people that do the second douches as well as they could be upping the economy but being greedy is easier I guess.
I resent 90% of the miners but I still love dusty endlessly for making the damn mining system (and Cannon!) because he has shown me the Dicovery community for what they really are. I feel myself losing more and more contact with anyone in this game and desperately seeking people that actually share my viewpoint but they are all busy with keeping their own factions alive, arguing about their own SRP's and protecting something they have made with skill and desire because some douche wants to crap all over it.
i don't know if you people really understand but if few people that share the same viewpoint here actually teamed up you would have lot more misery on your hands, so be happy that the constant crap flinged at some is keeping us all apart.
EDIT: it would be frikkin awesome if someone actually reports me for profanities since everyone was so eager to post in that "I never sanctioned anyone" thread.
' Wrote:To answer the criticisms made by those who "dont have time to slave away making money", I suggest that your approach to this server is wrong.
You need barely 30 million credits to be a valuable individual on this server. Enough to get a fighter and fly alongside fellow faction members. In addition, you have the option of joining a player clan, and having everything you require given to you. If you prefer to be independent, you'll have to pay the price; and that price is fairly low anyway.
The majority of players who find themselves "slaving away" are saving up to buy battleships, but here's the deal; no-one said you HAD to have one, and the server doesnt NEED you to have one. Why then, should it be made easy?
The other people who "slave away" trade because that's the role they've chosen. They RP traders, and enjoy it, realising that it is a continual journey of enjoyment and NOT a means to an end. If you're part of this group, you might quickly find that the money piles up, and you find you have little to spend it on. At that point, you come to realise that money is merely a bonus, and that the activity itself is the reward. (I speak as a player who has collected over 5 billion credits in his time, and still trades for fun rather than profit).
Traders on Discovery should be the latter; players who have made characters who are traders for fun, not characters of players who want money for cap-ships.
Play games to have fun. If you're not having fun, address the problem.
Okie dokie, let's just take the capships from the mod. All of them. Well, the npcs could still use them, but players would have to settle for fighters, freighters and transports. No more bombers either, since there's no player capships to counter. Two-three fighters can take on a transport, so, there ya go. Everyone with nerves of steel, optimum loadouts and highly-developed twitch reflexes will have boatloads of of unabashed pvp-fun. Until the 50 players remaining find something else to get all worked up about.
*hyberbole mode off*
No offense Carlos, but you don't speak for the whole server. Not everyone is into fighters as much as others. To each his own. Capships, BSes in particular are so weighted down with rules, regs, inherent weaknesses and that bizarre capship stigma, that using one demands a lot from its pilot.
Other community members have made good points about the current game economy. There are other perspectives besides the "saving up for a BS" argument: establishing/maintaining a faction, buying munitions, buying armor, the problem of gametime constraints, etc.
Xoria's economy system is good, at least good enough. The idea of leveling the playing field for different traders is its hallmark. That said, I still think all the "stuff" in this mod could be 30-50% cheaper. Thus everyone can have "fun", without sacrificing an undue amount of RL in the process.
' Wrote:yes! BUT HOW TO DOO IT? I wish i cud haw it in litle window,but its still in full mode(all screen)and i need to push Win buttom to let it down.HOW to do it corectly plz?
add -w to the end of your freelancer shortcut afaik.
' Wrote:Not gives, accommodates. Gives would be launching with a Rheinland BS equipped with Capital VIII Armor. An accommodating system would provide the same with only an annoying specter of investment of time for reward.
At any rate I advocate for all trade run payouts to be <strike>tripled</strike> quadrupled and ship re-sale prices to be exactly the same, if not more, than ship purchase prices.
The same could be said of mining, as it accomodates instant gratification with a big pay off.:mellow:
' Wrote:Okie dokie, let's just take the capships from the mod. All of them. Well, the npcs could still use them, but players would have to settle for fighters, freighters and transports. No more bombers either, since there's no player capships to counter. Two-three fighters can take on a transport, so, there ya go. Everyone with nerves of steel, optimum loadouts and highly-developed twitch reflexes will have boatloads of of unabashed pvp-fun. Until the 50 players remaining find something else to get all worked up about.
*hyberbole mode off*
No offense Carlos, but you don't speak for the whole server. Not everyone is into fighters as much as others. To each his own. Capships, BSes in particular are so weighted down with rules, regs, inherent weaknesses and that bizarre capship stigma, that using one demands a lot from its pilot.
Other community members have made good points about the current game economy. There are other perspectives besides the "saving up for a BS" argument: establishing/maintaining a faction, buying munitions, buying armor, the problem of gametime constraints, etc.
Xoria's economy system is good, at least good enough. The idea of leveling the playing field for different traders is its hallmark. That said, I still think all the "stuff" in this mod could be 30-50% cheaper. Thus everyone can have "fun", without sacrificing an undue amount of RL in the process.
Your parody of anti-cap bias is ridiculous. Wanting capital ships earned is not equivalent to wanting them gone.
The crux of my argument is that trading and mining should be treated as worthwhile persuits for their own right, and NOT, as so many people treat them, as a means to getting credits for other persuits.
My clan, for example, has billions of credits stored, a home system, battleship, and over 50 historical members, each with at least 2 fully equipped personal ships. The vast majority of this was achieved by fun trading, smuggling and piracy. We worked together, had events, ran convoys, and in the process not only made a fortune, but had hundreds of hours of worthwhile and entertaining encounters with other players.
We pirated, not because we needed money, but because we were Corsairs who liked to pirate.
We smuggled, not because we needed money, but because we were Corsairs who liked to smuggle. etc.
My point is that if people recognised the RP fun that could be had with these activities, rather than using them as a means to get cash for other things, they'd quickly find themselves not "slaving away" but enjoying the process, and reaching their goals allot faster and more easily.
' Wrote:Your parody of anti-cap bias is ridiculous. Wanting capital ships earned is not equivalent to wanting them gone.
The crux of my argument is that trading and mining should be treated as worthwhile persuits for their own right, and NOT, as so many people treat them, as a means to getting credits for other persuits.
My clan, for example, has billions of credits stored, a home system, battleship, and over 50 historical members, each with at least 2 fully equipped personal ships. The vast majority of this was achieved by fun trading, smuggling and piracy. We worked together, had events, ran convoys, and in the process not only made a fortune, but had hundreds of hours of worthwhile and entertaining encounters with other players.
We pirated, not because we needed money, but because we were Corsairs who liked to pirate.
We smuggled, not because we needed money, but because we were Corsairs who liked to smuggle. etc.
My point is that if people recognised the RP fun that could be had with these activities, rather than using them as a means to get cash for other things, they'd quickly find themselves not "slaving away" but enjoying the process, and reaching their goals allot faster and more easily.
Maybe you're not getting what we're saying, Carlos. We'd like to make some money while we RP. That is the point of a trader's RP, isn't it? Making money, I mean. Unless I missed something somewhere.
Quote:Quick comment - we thought that Panzer was the Leader, Swift. -Agmen
' Wrote:Your parody of anti-cap bias is ridiculous. Wanting capital ships earned is not equivalent to wanting them gone.
The crux of my argument is that trading and mining should be treated as worthwhile persuits for their own right, and NOT, as so many people treat them, as a means to getting credits for other persuits.
My clan, for example, has billions of credits stored, a home system, battleship, and over 50 historical members, each with at least 2 fully equipped personal ships. The vast majority of this was achieved by fun trading, smuggling and piracy. We worked together, had events, ran convoys, and in the process not only made a fortune, but had hundreds of hours of worthwhile and entertaining encounters with other players.
We pirated, not because we needed money, but because we were Corsairs who liked to pirate.
We smuggled, not because we needed money, but because we were Corsairs who liked to smuggle. etc.
My point is that if people recognised the RP fun that could be had with these activities, rather than using them as a means to get cash for other things, they'd quickly find themselves not "slaving away" but enjoying the process, and reaching their goals allot faster and more easily.
What did you expect from hyperbole? It got its impetus from your idea that the server "doesn't need your caps." But I guess we need their transports to milk with a vengeance.
If trading and mining were done strictly in the spirit of "having fun", as you put it, pirates would have less sheep to prey on. Much of the financial base that you and your clan have established, the part of it that consists of funds received via pirating, owes much to other players grinding joylessly for creds. You could argue against this point, but only at the risk of donning a hypocrite's hat. That said, I don't have any secret agenda against piracy on the server. If anything, pirates provide me with target practice.
I don't disagree with the idea that big ships should cost significantly more than fighters. Capshipsners/5k-transports are large-scale investments and that should be reflected in rp. However, I believe there is plenty of room for compromise in the pricing policy, especially given all of the disadvantagements that come part and parcel with owning a capship. And liners and 5-k transports, to a lesser extent.
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