Just minutes ago we had to deal with RM who came to shoot at Yanagi (approximatly in 2,5k range) in sigma - 13 for no big reason. We had new recruit to train and helping him around to get used to whos name was Cristobal|Sails. All in all we forced RM to leave it left a bitter taste after an encounter.
We needed to take out entire flagship to openly show that such behaviour we won't tolerate.
I logged on my character who was in that time f1 at frankfurt (had emergancy last time so I left the game that way above the plane). In the mean time while I was heading to sigma 13 I saw RM on my contacts in 7~9 k range. Dropped a mine on tl and returend to yanagi (without RM patrols on my tail).
So I'll require some kind of explantion. Does RM applies it laws in independent simga 13 ? Do RM are allowed to just go and shoot all visitors of the junkers at yanagi? It's a ussual practise your faction does?
From my expierence I haven't seen for example LN coming to bufflo to shoot criminals or BAF to cadiz to shoot corsairs.
Now I would understand if my character would been chased. But he manage to shake them off before returining to yanagi.
I can sent all the proofs if faction leader would require them.
To add a bit more, i was in RHA for quite a lot of time. And from all of my encounters back from then RM looked really nice faction. I hope we can solve this out.
You personally showed up in Frankfurt so we decided to chase you as you fled. Yes, we were chasing you because the Black Sails have been causing the RM a lot of harm in-role play so it was obvious that we won't let our hold of you once we have it and pursue you as far as our ZoI allows.
We also regularly patrol Sigma-13 for months now, the Rheinland Military has an influence until Helgoland station and the debris field around it, the GMG gave us permission to have such. I can dig up the thread if you really insist, but anyone who has been frequently accessing the Sigmas can note that we indeed did patrol it regularly.
We also know of Yanagi, it is not an unlawful base. Yet, none of us did the "oh look, they are obviously using Yanagi as their base!" practice, which is something that could have sparked negative feedback.
All the Rheinwehr did was to catch a lone fighter, pursue it, then it clumsily took its pursuers to the hornet's nest, which just so happened to be within the ZoI of the military force. We don't chase criminals back to their bases because that's not in our ZoI. The Helgoland debris field is very will within our ZoI.
Our conduct was entirely fitting in role play. Of course, we couldn't have been aware of you not willing to fight, training recruits, or wanting to "shake us off". It has been the practice of the Black Sails which I witnessed quite commonly (in character and out of it) to leave before being engaged, then return with a greater force. Happened quite often, which I both in-character and out of it, thought would be the case.
But of course, I can authorize my men to send battleships on you when we don't approve of your presence in Hamburg. It would be very much justified both in role play, and seeing today's conduct, out of it as well. Let's hope we won't have to resort to our relations derailing like that.
' Wrote:You personally showed up in Frankfurt so we decided to chase you as you fled. Yes, we were chasing you because the Black Sails have been causing the RM a lot of harm in-role play so it was obvious that we won't let our hold of you once we have it and pursue you as far as our ZoI allows.
Now you weren't chasing. You lost my track at holstein untill you came to yanagi itself later. Also, you were free to use our feedback about our "bad" actions before this encounter just perfactly. Yet any attempt to talk to any of black sails leadership yet alone members wasn't done.
' Wrote:We also regularly patrol Sigma-13 for months now, the Rheinland Military has an influence until Helgoland station and the debris field around it, the GMG gave us permission to have such. I can dig up the thread if you really insist, but anyone who has been frequently accessing the Sigmas can note that we indeed did patrol it regularly.
It's alright that gmg gave you premission. But it doesn't make sense for you to come at yanagi and shoot criminals for the "good of rheinland" imo.
' Wrote:We also know of Yanagi, it is not an unlawful base. Yet, none of us did the "oh look, they are obviously using Yanagi as their base!" practice, which is something that could have sparked negative feedback.
As any other houses know of junker bases, but strangly I don't see behaviuor of other analogic factions coming to shoot criminals in junker bases.
' Wrote:All the Rheinwehr did was to catch a lone fighter, pursue it, then it clumsily took its pursuers to the hornet's nest, which just so happened to be within the ZoI of the military force. We don't chase criminals back to their bases because that's not in our ZoI. The Helgoland debris field is very will within our ZoI.
As I said, they failed to catch up that criminal in rheinland. And Alavera shaked them out of sensor range back at holstein. You can rp that other stations like ALG one in sigma 13 tracked it's sense, but there is no telling where it went in those clouds. Maybe to sigma - 17 maybe to honshu. Also I haven't seen RM chasing RHA via "Y" function all they way up to LWB base in NB, strangely
' Wrote:Our conduct was entirely fitting in role play. Of course, we couldn't have been aware of you not willing to fight, training recruits, or wanting to "shake us off". It has been the practice of the Black Sails which I witnessed quite commonly (in character and out of it) to leave before being engaged, then return with a greater force. Happened quite often, which I both in-character and out of it, thought would be the case.
It's not "wanting to shake off" it's that I did shake your pilots off our of sensor range, mind you. Also the behaviuor you are describing I never actually saw happening, and you had plenty of time to hit us with proves of it in our feedback. As long as that is not done yet, I'll take this just as an attempt to compromise my negative feedback.
' Wrote:But of course, I can authorize my men to send battleships on you when we don't approve of your presence in Hamburg. It would be very much justified both in role play, and seeing today's conduct, out of it as well. Let's hope we won't have to resort to our relations derailing like that.
There was only once then sails were in hamburg as I was let to know, and after it I informed people not to go there becouse of rp and oorp reasons. And about battleships, well your indies are trying to do that, but... they aren't that lucky.
I still fail to see any justification of your ships coming to Yanagi just to pew pew criminals.
' Wrote:Now you weren't chasing. You lost my track at holstein untill you came to yanagi itself later. Also, you are free to use our feedback about our "bad" actions before this encounter just perfactly. Yet any attempt to talk to any of black sails leadership yet alone members wasn't done.
Not being in hot pursuit doesn't mean we weren't chasing. We checked the commercial area around Holstein, where we spotted you. If you don't want to be spotted, dock or leave our ZoI until we depart and continue conducting your actions.
I also talked to Karolis and Curios. I don't consider taking such issues to public of any benefit.
' Wrote:It's alright that gmg gave you premission. But it doesn't make sense for you to come at yanagi and shoot criminals for the "good of rheinland" imo.
The thing is, we didn't come to Yanagi to shoot you. We came to Sigma-13 to shoot you. And yes, nipping a problem in the bud, in this case following a Corsair to his buddies and killing them all before they do any more damage is a logical and tactical choice. You weren't the one making it.
' Wrote:As any other houses know of junker bases, but strangly I don't see behaviuor of other analogic factions coming to shoot criminals in junker bases.
I personally recall being shot at by the LN Gold right near Rochester.
You don't see it happening but it still happens. Way to base an argument on subjective points of view?
' Wrote:As I said, they failed to catch up that criminal in rheinland. And Alavera shaked them out of sensor range back at holstein. You can rp that other stations like ALG one in sigma 13 tracked it's sense, but there is no telling where it went in those clouds. Maybe to sigma - 17 maybe to honshu.
Yes. That is why we were simply to do a circle around Helgoland and search for you. We didn't go straight to Yanagi.
[RM]Adm.Alec.Voelkel: Right. Let's split up and comb the field.
[RM]Adm.Alec.Voelkel: Schmitt, Schoon, go right. Landers, on me to the left.
[RM]Adm.Alec.Voelkel: Patrol the edge of these debris.
You were spotted and exposed. We proceeded to take action.
' Wrote:Also I haven't seen RM chasing RHA via "Y" function all they way up to LWB base in NB, strangely
?
' Wrote:so the behaviuor you are describing I never actually saw happening, and you had plenty of time to hit us with proves of it in our feedback. As long as that is not done yet, I'll take this just as an attempt to compromise my negative feedback.
As an addition to what I already said, I'm reasoning against your negative feedback since I don't find it justified. Again, not having seen something before doesn't mean it's not plausible to happen or never happened before.
' Wrote:There was only once then sails were in hamburg as I was let to know, and after it I informed people not to go there becouse of rp and oorp reasons. And about battleships, well your indies are trying to do that, but... they aren't that lucky.
And your indies take Legates to Omega-7, meeting a similar fate. How is it of any relevance? I'm discussing facts like holding back cruisers and gunboats when you were having fighter fights. That is something which we continued previously. Of course, I couldn't have known you told your personnel not to traverse Hamburg anymore either, but it's not of relevance, was a simple example.
' Wrote:I still fail to see any justification of your ships coming to Yanagi just to pew pew criminals.
Right, so in a nutshell:
-We spotted a highly dangerous criminal.
-We lost track of him.
-We investigated the possible places where he might be.
-We found him with his buddies.
-His buddies outmatched us.
-We retreated.
I don't see how that scenario is of any misconduct.
It's alright. Someone of you already wanted to go Q_Q in our feedback so I took a ninja to take an offensive course of action.
Alright. It's ok, I don't mind and I'll know what to expect.
About the battleship sceen, that was an answer like: "come with your battleships, I don't mind it." and not like "oh you can't control your indies" never intented. I know we can't control them myself very well
Also the quote you copied was taken from tradelane position. In 13k range from yanagi base. Sigma -13 is small technicly, so it's more like using a flow in game mechanics. Well but who cares now.
Seems rheinland military can into independent system far from their patrol zones and tradelanes. Into the pirate deathtraps and survive.
So I'll note simply. Rheinland military comes like some hollywood action film characters to fight in placed which suppose to be deathtraps for lawful forces and survive or even win the day remaining heroes. I wonder if such day comes to, then devoted rheinland forces will raid gamma for the good of rheinland becouse they tracked him returning home from simga - 13.
I actually find you basing your arguments on game mechanics quite ironic, after all when a Corsair comes to Rheinland, he's surrounded by an equally hostile environment, if not any more. You don't see us complaining about it because we are appreciative of you people bringing activity to Rheinland.
Expressing that appreciation, if you really mind so much, I will notify the Military to avoid combing Yanagi as long as you don't start using it as some sort of immuno-zone where law's hands can't reach.
While the picture you posted is nice and it actually gave me a very good idea for an avatar choice, there really is no need to exaggerate this situation to such a dramatic level. Just observe your actions previously or altogether, then compare them to the Rheinwehr's current line of conduct. A pattern of similarity can be easily drawn, yet if we don't mind, I see not why you do when it even happens to a lesser extent.
It's not dramatic for me. It just triggered me than one of the RM who participated in that gonna yell on our faction for properly defending their home base, in which, imo rm shouldn't have came given the condition which were then at that time. And the last post was for lulz : D
From the beginning I want to make it clear this is not Q.Q, just negative feedback.
In short: me - sair Titan and a merc ID'd Roc Bomber prepare to engage a Wilde GB, while another merc/flreelance was watching. RNC-Hanz.Bacon came there in a solariser BS. Me and the Roc start shooting the Wilde GB. Next:
[16.12.2010 17:58:03] RNC-Hanz.Bacon: //DOnt gank freelancers- let the sail and the nopmand play. - in local chat
Gank? VHF + BO vs Wilde GB = Gank? If that is so what do you call it when a solarizer BS and a Wilde GB with nomad guns and Keeper ID, not Das Wilde ID, start shooting a Titan and a Roc?
Anyway, the next moment the BS started shooting both os us AND the other merc/freelancer and ignores orders coming from [RM]Laura.Schoon, whom I understand was above him in your hierarchy.
Also a military battleship helping a nomad kill 2 mercenaries/freelancers is kinda dumb.
This is the second BAD experience I had with your guys in less than a week. Please get your stuff sorted out, ok?
Edit: People are telling me RNC ships are actually indies. If that is so I am sorry for putting this here. Even so, you should keep a closer eye on them. And this is my oppinion on all indie caps, RCN, MNS, lolsair Legates, etc
Yes, RNC are indies, and, who tell you that we don't actually keep a close eye on them? Of course, considering you are in the corsair faction, you know, as much as we do, that we can't keep one eye on them all, for all the time.
I think it's unfair of you to lay blame on the [RM] for the actions of the RNC. Just as the Corsairs have trouble controlling their legates, I don't come to your Sails Feedback thread and complain 'cus you don't control them do I?
The reason I'm posting here are for two reasons, one is that I feel sympathy towards the [RM] who have the same issues as the [LN], controlling their independent owned caps. (Whose Role-Play and personal OOC messages are in no connection to our respective Official Factions, Vito).
The second is that I welcome the [RM] to raid Hudson again so we can get some action. I did saw four of them yesterday, but it was personally a bad time for me due to exams that I took today. Anyways, keep coming and I will try to get some of our lower ranked players to move there as well. The war has been in a bit of a cold (save for a few independent RNC's raiding Texas) so perhaps a few fighter-battles in Hudson with the Primary Rheinland Fleet could be nice.
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